Surface Planer/jointer help!

[Jamieip]

Hey guys. I can't seem to find any info on the issue I am having with my Surface planer (jointer) so had to post.

I bought an Axminster AW106PT2 a few weeks ago, and after getting it in the house I noticed that the setup was pretty wack on it. The tables were way out of alignment, and was having my boards come out flat along 2/3rds of the length, but the last 1/3 would taper off and be about 5-6 thou lower by the end of the board. This was due to me having to lift the planer by the tables to get it up the step into the house.

Anyways I phoned axminster and they sent some guy around to come and setup the machine. He brought a nice big straight edge (which i don't have, hence not being able to set it up myself) and set up the tables/blades to what he though was good but i'm still having this tapering issue!

Again, the boards are coming out nice and flat for about 2/3rds of the way. however that last 1/3 tapers up to about 5-6 thou at the very end.

Any idea what could be causing this?


To give context to the picture, this is the last 1/3 section of the board. you should be able to see light underneath, progressively getting bigger the further right it goes. At the very right, it is at its largest. The picture looks like its making contact at the very end but this is not true, there is just something behind the straightedge blocking the light.

Any ideas?

 

[dzj]

Your in/out-feed tables should be tweaked a bit more.
Setting the tables properly can be time consuming and the 'guy from the company' is usually in a
rush, so it's best if you do it yourself.
This might be an opportunity to get that nice straight edge you always wanted.

 

[Jamieip]

I understand it's not ideal. But I'm young and have very small income, so a nice long straightedge is way out of the question for now as I'll be paying off this planet for the next few months at least. He was here for a good 4 hours so it seemed like he put quite a bit of work in

 

[dzj]

Could it be that the board is slightly convex along it's entire length rather than it just tapers at the last 1/3?
This would indicate that the ends of the tables are raised a bit and could be a result of the mishandling
of the SP.

 

[Jamieip]

The board is pretty flat a long most of its length. But I'm getting really unpredictable results from it, sometimes my board is curved, sometimes tapered. By my technique seems fine to those I've asked, and it feels fine to me. How much pressure should I be applying to the board on the outfeed? And how should I be applying pressure when twist is involved?

 

[MickCheese]

I'm no expert but it sounds to me that your tables are not coplanar.

So try using the straightest thing you have to hand and try to see if the tables are coplanar if they are then check that the out-feed table is slightly above the in-feed, then check the blade height. Start with it at the same height as the out-feed table and see if that works. After each change give it a try to see if any one thing makes a difference.

Good luck.

Mick

 

[Peter Sefton]

It could also be that your out feed table is above the cutting circle of your rotating cutter block, raising the cutters may overcome this issue and a quick fix. If you raise them to much you will get snipe, but this is better then convex timber.

My instinct would be to get the engineer back out. Resetting planer beds is not an easy job and you may wish you hadn't started.

Cheers Peter

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hi

What kind of timber is it (hardwood?) and are the blades good and sharp?

W2S

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I had an early version of that machine, and unless it has been changed in the later version you have, there was an annoying design flaw. Assuming the engineer got the tables co-planar, since he took the time to do so, then I think the problem is the outfield table is too low. You can use the knob to adjust it- it should be just a touch below the knives when they are at top dead centre of their rotation. Now for the design flaw; whenever the outfield table was lifted to change to thicknesseer mode and then returned to surfacing again, mine always returned lower than I set it, and needed raising again, totally inconvenient. I'll bet a pound to a pinch your out feed table is too low.

Mike.

 

[custard]

Rip off the original factory edge from a sheet off 18mm MDF, about 150-200mm wide. It's not engineering quality, but it's the best cheap 8' straight edge you'll get!

about 5-6 thou lower by the end of the board. This was due to me having to lift the planer by the tables to get it up the step into the house.

In fairness to Axminster lifting any machinery by the table is a big no no. But not withstanding that own goal it sounds like you've dodged a bullet, because the error is only 5-6 thou, so considerably less than two tenths of a mill. For a budget machine that's pretty good, from memory Felder only claim 0.1mm over a 2 metre board on their premium Format Four machines. Operating technique alone could easily account for that.

 

[Jamieip]

Unfortunately lifting by the tables was the only way to get it in the shop. But we took care doing it the safest way we could.

Yes the knives are plenty sharp

I've checked the knives and they are not set even. The tool that comes with the machine is **** and so the blades aren't parallel to the machine. I have bought a set of knife setting jigs that should arrive Monday.

I have a 600mm straightedge, and from what I can tell from it the tables are co planer. I can't rip a straightedge on a table saw because I don't have one. My only option would be to use the machines edge of mdf as a rough edge.

The outfeed table is a fraction lower than the knives, I set this by maKing them higher and lowering them until the wood no longer catches. Once my knife setting jig arrives I'll use a straightedge to adjust the outfeed table properly.

The tables both have a 2 thou now in the middle (within tolerances of the machine)

 

[custard]

Okay, so 5-6 thou on the table, I read it as 5-6 thou on the planed board?

 

[Jamieip]

Terribly sorry. I'll try andexplain it in the simplest way possible, please forgive me if it sounds patronising, I just want to make sure its all clear

The tables of the machine both have a 2 thou bow to the middle of them.

With my 600mm straightedge, the tables seem to be co-planer. However the tables are 1m long, so I can't measure the whole surface.

The knives are not set parallel to the planers tables, however I don't think that this would cause my issue.

If i put a straightedge on the surface of the wood, the result of a piece of timber I put through the machine is this flat along 2/3rds of the piece. however the last section tapers until there is a 5-6 thou gap at the very end.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

A new knife setting jig will not help set the knives parallel to the tables any more than the one that came with the machine. The jigs will set the knife parallel to the block, but if the tables are not parallel to the block then the problem persists. Set the knives parallel to the outfeed table you do not need a jig. Plane up 2 sticks of softwood, flat, about 6 inches long by 3/4" wide 1/2" thick and cantilever them off the outfeed table, across the cutter block. Unplug machine and rotate the cutter until the knife catches the sticks. If the knives are parallel to the table, they should move the sticks forwards by the same amount. Ideally the forward movement should be about 1/8". If the sticks move differently on the same knife, they are not parallel, if they move differently between knives, they are not set for the same projection. If adjustment is necessary, wedge, (with a bit of softwood) the cutter block at the point the knife just touches the stick(s). Loosen the clamp bar and press down on the sticks to set the knife, re tighten the clamp. Repeat with the other knives with the block wedged at the same point. When all knives are set, rotate the block to see if the knives move the sticks 1/8 inch forwards. Adjust the outfield table until this is the case and take a cut. It should now be spot on, but if there is a little snipe on the tail end, raise the outfeed table a fraction till it disappears. If the tables are coplanar, then your problem will be fixed. I literally set my knives like this, this afternoon and the results are perfect.

Mike.

 

[Jamieip]

The knives are not set correctly inside the cutter. The little jig that comes with the machine is very difficult use, the the knives have not been set correctly. The outfeed is parallel to the cutter. The only table that had been adjust was the infeed, making it parallel to the outfeed.

So the outfeed and cutter are all good, but he knives aren't set in the cutter correctly

 

[woodbrains]

The knives are not set correctly inside the cutter. The little jig that comes with the machine is very difficult use, the the knives have not been set correctly. The outfeed is parallel to the cutter. The only table that had been adjust was the infeed, making it parallel to the outfeed.

So the outfeed and cutter are all good, but he knives aren't set in the cutter correctly

Hello,

The method I just described will set them correctly, you don't need a jig. The beauty of it is, it works if the planer table is parallel to the block or not. If it is, fine, it still works and is free! The knife setting jig with the machine is rudimentary, but perfectly usable, it will absolutely set the knife parallel to the block and the correct projection. Just wedge the cutter block so it does not rotate and it is easy to hold it on the block with one hand and tighten the nuts with the other. The 2 sticks method is foolproof, though. None of my machines currently have setting jigs as they are vintage and have been lost decades ago, I should think. I have been setting machines for years like this.

Mike.

 

[Jamieip]

The springs on my machine are so strong that I cannot push the knives very far, even with the supplied jig. The only way for my to set knives is to remove springs and use a magnet jig to hold the blades at the correct height. My planer does not have any height adjustment screws for the blades, they're set by holding them in the right position and clamping. But the springs just do not have enough compression

 

[worn thumbs]

I can't rip a straightedge on a table saw because I don't have one. My only option would be to use the machines edge of mdf as a rough edge.

Which was the remedy suggested to you.

If the tables are co-planar,and it seems that they are close,the advice to carefully set the knives is correct.It would appear that you have a bit of a battle on your hands if the jig is less than perfect.Have you made sure that the cutter block is absolutely clean and free from gum?A wiping with a strong solvent might get a few last traces of residue off and allow the jig to seat accurately and securely.

If using the jig on a spotlessly clean cutter block won't solve the problem you are back to straight edges and letting the cutters lift them just a touch and move them along a millimetre or five.It is a miserable and long winded job and I have spent almost an entire morning doing the job on a vintage Danckaert machine in the past.Its much harder on old and well used machines because the tendency is for the table wear to create low spots where the fence is habitually used-just a thou or two but you seem to be pursuing high levels of accuracy and may be inclined to look for bowing or humps across the tables.Sometimes castings are machined before they have fully settled and the presence of webs can leave stresses that cause the casting to creep a touch.

It may be a pain to do all this work,but next time round you will understand the machine much better and get the job done faster.

 

[Jamieip]

Thanks everyone!

Yes the slots ar very clean, it's just the springs causing the issue.

My plan is to remove the springs, and when the magnetic jig comes set the knives up with it holding them in place. Then set my outfeed to them as the outfeed/infeed and cutter head are all parallel