Support for Scrub Planes

[Saint Simon]

There is a lively discussion of the pros and cons of scrub planes going on in the for-sale forum and I just had to put my halfpennies worth in and this seem the appropriate place.
I am currently, ie today, taking some rough sawn oak planks down about 8mm to thickness.
With my shiny scrub this is proving not only very quick but is also allowing me to take the first steps towards flatness. The scrub isn't just a crude very rapid removal tool, it is also one that can be applied selectively to take out the high spots first. And the low weight of it makes it less tiring than a larger bench plane to take many rapid cuts.
I am really glad that the modern makers made these available and advertised their virtues. To a newcomer like me the scrub was a revelation and I wouldn't be without it.
Thank you, I feel better for that
Simon

 

[AndyT]

Well said. But what sort of animal is yours?

I have had a similar positive experience, and mine is one of the no-name wooden ones that Rutands used to sell. Probably made in eastern Europe, sold for about £10-15. Horn at the front, nice thick heavily cambered blade and a wide throat.

Much cheaper than the iron option, but I can't find anyone else that sells them now.

 

[Jacob]

.... rough sawn oak planks down about 8mm to thickness.
With my shiny scrub this is proving not only very quick but is also allowing me to take the first steps towards flatness. .....

Yebbut I wouldn't have a problem doing that with my jack plane (fairly well cambered in jack plane fashion). In fact that is what a jack plane is for - but it also takes you most/all of the way to a flat finished surface.
I just bought one of these http://www.fine-tools.com/schrup.htm
Steel ones are obsolete and not very common second hand, which suggests that they were never a lot of use, in between all the other options.

 

[Karl]

I was about to point you in that direction Jacob - as you say, the Stanley ones are very rare (in this country at least).

Which one did you buy - the proper Scrub plane, or the small Jack (which is 20 Euros cheaper)? The small scrub is a similair length, the blade is only 5mm wider (at 38mm) and I think it would just be a case of putting your own radius on it to make it a decent scrub plane.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Paul Chapman]

Steel ones are obsolete and not very common second hand, which suggests that they were never a lot of use, in between all the other options.

You do make some odd comments, Jacob. Metal scrub planes which used to be made by Stanley and Record and which are currently made by LN and Veritas work very well indeed.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

I was about to point you in that direction Jacob - as you say, the Stanley ones are very rare (in this country at least).

Which one did you buy - the proper Scrub plane, or the small Jack (which is 20 Euros cheaper)? The small scrub is a similair length, the blade is only 5mm wider (at 38mm) and I think it would just be a case of putting your own radius on it to make it a decent scrub plane.

Cheers

Karl

The first one - the only one they call a "scrub" plane.
I don't think there is a "proper" scrub as such it's more a case of some configurations being more suitable for "scrubbing" than others, including modified worn-out old jack or smoother planes. Also suitability depends on exactly what it is you want to scrub.
A purpose made scrub is clearly something for which many generations of woodworkers have felt no great need.

 

[Jacob]

Steel ones are obsolete and not very common second hand, which suggests that they were never a lot of use, in between all the other options.

You do make some odd comments, Jacob. Metal scrub planes which used to be made by Stanley and Record and which are currently made by LN and Veritas work very well indeed.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Stanley or Record versions have been obsolete for some time, 2nd hand are rare (and expensive) which suggests that they were not much in demand which in turn suggests that they weren't a lot of use.
As compared to say wooden jack plane - about the commonest (and hence cheapest) of all old planes due to being in such high demand.
The fact that LN or LV make them has no bearing on anything (except their fans!).

 

[bugbear]

I don't think there is a "proper" scrub as such it's more a case of some configurations being more suitable for "scrubbing" than other...

This comment shows good judgement.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

Steel ones are obsolete and not very common second hand, which suggests that they were never a lot of use, in between all the other options.

You do make some odd comments, Jacob. Metal scrub planes which used to be made by Stanley and Record and which are currently made by LN and Veritas work very well indeed.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Stanley or Record versions have been obsolete for some time, 2nd hand are rare (and expensive) which suggests that they were not much in demand which in turn suggests that they weren't a lot of use.

Blimey, Jacob, you do talk some absolute twaddle. Since when have decisions by Stanley and Record about what tools to make and sell had anything to do with their usefulness to woodworkers?

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[dunbarhamlin]

There is of course a lot of overlap in Stanley's catalogue from their hayday, as their designs are inspired by the toolsets of many different professions, many of which needed to perform similar operations but with different emphases and different development histories. So a scrub might be considered homo erectus' equivalent of homo neanderthalensis' jack, or indeed homo habilis' adze. Having both is an unnecessary luxury (though of course "need" means different things to different folks )

 

[woodbloke]

I use one of the horned varieties with a lignum sole from Deiter Schmidt and to date have found it quite useful. I use it for scrubbing off an old, rough sawn surface which might be in 'wind' (thereby taking off the high spots) ready for more accurate machining. It's also good for cleaning up a painted or varnished surface to reveal new timber beneath. Although it's now part of the 'collection' I wouldn't say that I use it a great deal, but it's a useful plane when the need arises...a bit like the Veritas compass plane :-" - Rob

 

[Jacob]

You do make some odd comments, Jacob. Metal scrub planes which used to be made by Stanley and Record and which are currently made by LN and Veritas work very well indeed.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Stanley or Record versions have been obsolete for some time, 2nd hand are rare (and expensive) which suggests that they were not much in demand which in turn suggests that they weren't a lot of use.

Blimey, Jacob, you do talk some absolute twaddle. Since when have decisions by Stanley and Record about what tools to make and sell had anything to do with their usefulness to woodworkers?

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Twaddle yourself!
In their heyday decisions by Stanley and Record (and everybody else) about what tools to make and sell - AND the number eventually sold - had everything to do with their usefulness to woodworkers.
Does that really need explaining?

 

[Alf]

Explain, then, the existence #75 bullnose plane...

Just kidding - well, sort of. :lol:

 

[heimlaga]

There is a very logical reason for the rarity of metal scrub planes. A factor some of you tend to forget. Up here we call it "pengar". In English it is called "money" if you are into trade terminology.

Imagine an joiner who is investing some of his hard earned cash in some modern metal planes whose soles will never wear out nor will their bodies move with changes in moisture. What does he buy first? Wooden smoothers tend to wear around the mouth and wooden jointers tend to warp so a smoother and a jointer will be among the first purchases. That explains why number 4,6 and7 are most commonly found.
What will he buy last? A scrub. Simply because he lives in a world full of discarded old wooden smoooth and jack planes which can all be altered into good scrubs in a half an hour. If he is short of old planes he can make a new one in less time than he has to work to earn the prize of a metal scrub.

I am making that conclusion based on this fact:
Once in my life I have seen a Stanley scrub plane. About once a year I come across a purpose made wooden scrub plane. Old worn out wooden smoothers with cambered blades and crudely widened mouths can be fund by the dozen every year.

Right or wrong...... fell free to debate.

 

[bugbear]

Explain, then, the existence #75 bullnose plane...

Just kidding - well, sort of. :lol:

#RB10 !

#SB3 !

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

..
Right or wrong...... fell free to debate.

Right. Agree.

Explain, then, the existence #75 bullnose plane...

Easy - they are very cheap, but nobody knows they are useless until they've bought one!
Actually they are occasionally useful, although I can't remember when I last used mine. There was a time though.

 

[AndyT]

Ok, scrub planes are not going to be common when we've had power-planed stock for the last hundred and fifty years or so. (Remember, it was Jacob's foray into green woodworking that prompted this discussion.)

But sometimes, it was worth someone's time to make one. I reckon this example is user-made. No horn, but a good deep depression from a well-callussed thumb:

It's about 11" overall, made in two parts (so the central mortice can be sawn) then just screwed together.
I think you can see here how the single-iron blade is quite strongly cambered:

And this shot shows why I think the nice tidy handle would have been salvaged or bought as a spare part - it's much tidier than the unusual gouge work to shape the rear:

It works quite well. The other nice thing was that nobody else wanted it so I got it for 99p!

 

[bugbear]

Explain, then, the existence #75 bullnose plane...

Easy - they are very cheap, but nobody knows they are useless until they've bought one!

And thus a counter example to a correlation between numbers found and usefulness then...

BugBear

 

[Alf]

#RB10 !

#SB3 !

Good grief, I thought there was a profanity filter on this forum?! :shock: :lol:

Well done, Jacob - you made my point exactly.

 

[Jacob]

Explain, then, the existence #75 bullnose plane...

Easy - they are very cheap, but nobody knows they are useless until they've bought one!

And thus a counter example to a correlation between numbers found and usefulness then...

BugBear

Well done, Jacob - you made my point exactly.

No not at all.
As long as people keep buying things they think are useful, right or wrong, then a manufacturer will probably keep banging them out. Clearly not many people thought the Stanley/Record scrubbers were much use.....etc.