Super Parf dogs.
- Thread starter woodbrains
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Distinterior
Established Member
NazNomad":17vxgu0j said:
Its the workbench/table that Peter Parfit is using in his video above that Doug linked to.
MFT = Multi Function Table/Top.
cowfoot
Established Member
To be fair, they’re an absolute rip-off for what’s effectively a glorified camping table with some holes in it, and if anyone’s reading this wonderingif it’s worth buying one - buy a CNC-ed worktop and build your own instead!
The original dogs are very useful, not just for lining up materials/track - I stick them on opposite sides either end of long pieces (eg table legs) that need a Domino, much more reliable than clamping.
The original dogs are very useful, not just for lining up materials/track - I stick them on opposite sides either end of long pieces (eg table legs) that need a Domino, much more reliable than clamping.
transatlantic
Boom!
I think it's a fantasic idea, and relatively cheap too!
~£100 on the tracksaw
~£50 on a CNC milled top
~£50 on the parf dogs (the originals)
~£50 to knock up a suitable stand
It's a very versitile bench for clamping too.
Having said that - I think it can still be a bit fiddly, and time consuming to setup your cuts. Ideally, you'd have the track setup up in only one place, so that you can use the cut left on the table top as your layout line to cut too. But in practise, with the MFT size table top, I find that I am always having to move things around to accommodate for the cut, so now have several track lines.
I also find that I do have to clamp things down else they move. You see lots of people use the track and rely on the friction pads to keep it in place. When I tried that, the track moved (Parkside saw). So I now add a single festool clamp which works a treat.
~£100 on the tracksaw
~£50 on a CNC milled top
~£50 on the parf dogs (the originals)
~£50 to knock up a suitable stand
It's a very versitile bench for clamping too.
Having said that - I think it can still be a bit fiddly, and time consuming to setup your cuts. Ideally, you'd have the track setup up in only one place, so that you can use the cut left on the table top as your layout line to cut too. But in practise, with the MFT size table top, I find that I am always having to move things around to accommodate for the cut, so now have several track lines.
I also find that I do have to clamp things down else they move. You see lots of people use the track and rely on the friction pads to keep it in place. When I tried that, the track moved (Parkside saw). So I now add a single festool clamp which works a treat.
Distinterior
Established Member
http://www.cncdesign.co.uk/cnc/MDF-Repl ... -Dogs.html
That looks like a bargain!,......with the dogs as well for £45.
I paid £100 for my 2440 x 1220 MRMDF top, but I already had the Parf Dog set that I was using on my Festool MFT.
This is who made mine. http://www.rjwhitecncrouting.co.uk/
That looks like a bargain!,......with the dogs as well for £45.
I paid £100 for my 2440 x 1220 MRMDF top, but I already had the Parf Dog set that I was using on my Festool MFT.
This is who made mine. http://www.rjwhitecncrouting.co.uk/
transatlantic
Boom!
Distinterior":12c3ri5q said:
I got mine for there too. Next time, I'm going to go with the birch ply version, only £20 more
custard
Established Member
woodbrains":1dqxhzak said:
+1.
The MFT approach to sheet goods woodworking is fast, accurate, delivers extremely clean cuts, and offers precision repeatability. Furthermore is does all this at a (relatively) bargain price and in a package that's suitable for site work or workshop. It's a mistake to regard it as an expensive gadget type of tool, really it's just a very versatile jig, a sheet of MDF with a regular pattern of holes drilled through. You can make one yourself, buy "own label" versions, or pay more for a branded version. Your choice.
I see the system being used by more and more professionals, no surprise really, it just works.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Hmm I see how it works but I can't particularly see how it improves on a saw board, which is precise, accurate, very cheap, very adaptable. Both systems rely on setting up with a tape or a scale and are only as accurate as your marking and/or setting up
See saw-boards here. Just needs a length of MFC or similar, a straight hardboard edge on top, a circ saw and a couple of clamps. Can be used over saw stools (on site?) on a sheet of MDF (without the holes or the dogs), on a MFT (aren't all table-tops multi functional?) or on a bench etc
See saw-boards here. Just needs a length of MFC or similar, a straight hardboard edge on top, a circ saw and a couple of clamps. Can be used over saw stools (on site?) on a sheet of MDF (without the holes or the dogs), on a MFT (aren't all table-tops multi functional?) or on a bench etc
Marineboy
Established Member
I swear by my track saw for not only large sheet cutting but also smaller pieces of timber, knowing that I can quickly make absolutely square and repeatable cuts. One point which I don’t think has been emphasised as much as it should have been is the quality of the cut. I have used a Bosch circular saw in the past and the Festool track saw is light years ahead in terms of cleanliness of cut in any material.
I can also confirm the usefulness of the track with a router. I have just finished grooving about 16 metres of MDF to replicate T&G panelling and it would have taken me three times as long and would have been nowhere near as accurate using any other method.
I can also confirm the usefulness of the track with a router. I have just finished grooving about 16 metres of MDF to replicate T&G panelling and it would have taken me three times as long and would have been nowhere near as accurate using any other method.
Distinterior
Established Member
Jacob, ....I dont want to offend you or anyone else that is of the same opinion as you regarding a "Saw Board"..........But, you have got to be joking..!!!!!!
Are you seriously suggesting, that what that guy has just made in the video is comparable to a good quality track saw, rail and bench dogs used on an MFT type table.....????
Surely not...???
The guy even states in his video at 1.07 to 1.26, that he doesnt use his saw board for finished accurate cuts.....
Perhaps I need to make a video of my set up whilst processing sheet materials, so you can see the difference between the 2 systems..........
Are you seriously suggesting, that what that guy has just made in the video is comparable to a good quality track saw, rail and bench dogs used on an MFT type table.....????
Surely not...???
The guy even states in his video at 1.07 to 1.26, that he doesnt use his saw board for finished accurate cuts.....
Perhaps I need to make a video of my set up whilst processing sheet materials, so you can see the difference between the 2 systems..........
Certainly in Festools case, there's the whole thing about it being a system. Their saws, routers and even angle grinders run on the same extendible track which, in turn, take the same accessories (stops, clamps, flags etc.). The bench dogs are just one small but very versatile part of it. Of course, if you don't have need of that for what you do, it'll look like a silly way of doing things other than throwing money at colour coordinated toys 
MattRoberts
Established Member
Just to clarify, for those who don't appear to have researched the subject as well as they could have before weighing in:
The MFT solution uses a series of dog holes which are precisely positioned to ensure a perfect grid of 90 and 45 degree placement across the table. Combined with various flip down tracks and guides that can be used with a track saw or router, plus a variety of clamps that also work with the dog holes, you can rapidly and repeatedly achieve very precise cuts.
Yes you can achieve something similar using saw boards, your grandfather's trusty piece of string or a straight edge and a pencil or whatnot, but the key words here are rapid, repeatable and precise.
Someone using traditional methods of measuring /cutting will never match the speed and repeatability of someone using an MFT system. Hence the reason why it's so favored by the trade
The MFT solution uses a series of dog holes which are precisely positioned to ensure a perfect grid of 90 and 45 degree placement across the table. Combined with various flip down tracks and guides that can be used with a track saw or router, plus a variety of clamps that also work with the dog holes, you can rapidly and repeatedly achieve very precise cuts.
Yes you can achieve something similar using saw boards, your grandfather's trusty piece of string or a straight edge and a pencil or whatnot, but the key words here are rapid, repeatable and precise.
Someone using traditional methods of measuring /cutting will never match the speed and repeatability of someone using an MFT system. Hence the reason why it's so favored by the trade
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Don't know about the particular vid you watched but in fact a saw-board properly set up is going to be just as accurate as any track saw.Distinterior":1am22c1h said:
I know the gadgeteers won't believe this but it is true - they are much better than they look.
Not quite as convenient to use but there is no 'system' of add ons - you make your own board to fit your particular saw or router and just need two clamps.The only slight weakness is that you have to keep the saw (or router) up to the fence - it doesn't have a track it only has a fence, so needs a bit more control.
What reminded me was transatlantics post above - he says he has to clamp and fiddle about a bit. Don't we all!
transatlantic
Boom!
Jacob":33h6byaa said:
Just to be clear though, many people manage without clamping. Just quoting my experience
Marineboy
Established Member
I don’t use clamps on the track either for sawing or routing. The strips on the track base provide sufficient friction as long as you are careful.
woodbrains
Established Member
marcros":e4lfo5ju said:
Hello,
Up until now, no. I actually machined up some 3/4 inch dogs, so I could use my Veritas planing stops in conjunction, to help with squaring up. I haven't actually got around to making the MFT table yet, though. I have just been using the tracksaw with careful marking out, though I sometimes use a scrap of MDF, cut accurately, as a spacer for repeat cuts. I should make a table, though, I just broke down another sheet of MDF today.
Mike.
Mike.
woodbrains
Established Member
Jacob":wpenas46 said:
Hello,
Jacob, no, a saw board is not even in the same league. Apart from the fact that the track will protect the upper surface from spelching when cutting across grain. The plunge of the saw means that only a score line need be made in the sacrificial board (MFT) The dust extraction is unbelievably good. The whole thing is portable; the tracks join up accurately out of 800, 1400mm etc. extrusions, so cutting a 8 ft or even 10 ft sheet lengthwise doesn't need a (permanently) long saw board. And when you do want to cut smaller components you don't have to wield the long board or store it. You don't often need clamps, I have a set, but can't remember the last time I used them. Just lay the track, push the saw, it just stays where it is. The system is quicker, more accurate and less fiddly than a saw board by a large margin. If you set yourself up with the gear, you could make a built in set of shelves with the system. Use the track with a router to house in the fixed shelves, then used the router to make perfectly spaced rows of holes for shelf pins, all 32mm standard spacing. It is not an expensive gadget it is actually remarkably inexpensive compared to the machinery it potentially substitutes for.
Mike.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Saw-board performs just as well as a track saw once it's set up, depending on the saw itself and given similar dust extraction. They are deceptively accurate.woodbrains":tjp3cb3e said:
But yes is a bit more fiddly, is heavier, not easily adjusted for length, loses its thickness in depth of cut, but saves a lot of money.!! And you can make one up to fit any hand held circ saw or router, at very little cost.
Horses for courses.
