Suggestions for future heating system

[sirocosm]

I’ve been following this conversation with interest and here’s my query…..our 1960’s bungalow has the ugliest facing brick known to man but does have nice wide soffits . The cavity walls were ‘bead’ filled many years previous to us moving in and, perhaps fortuitously, we have had no issue with damp/interstitial condensation (IC) etc.
I would like kill a few birds with as few stones as possible and so why don’t I add further EXTERNAL insulation and have it rendered to any colour certified suitable by she who knows better? Thus warming the house and vastly improving its looks at the same time.
Am I imagining this but did I not read somewhere that there is the potential to cause IC through the addition of external insulation? Surely I’m correct (thinking back to my old ONC study days and the dew point curve) that by increasing the EXTERNAL temperature the dew point is pushed outwards and, therefore, lessening the chance of causing IC? Something in me is saying that I may cause a problem but I can’t see how? Any thoughts?

This is very common in Germany. They put some sort of rigid foam on the outside of the building, typically 10cm or thicker, and then they render directly over that. They attach it with some sort of anchors that have large (8cm?) washers. I suppose you would need to do something around the windows as well, although most I time I saw it done, they were changing the windows at the same time. I spoke to an architect there and he said it was better to have the masonry inside the insulation, because then the wall stays warm.

 

[Jameshow]

Try living in a grade two listed cottage with a council who thinks looks and heritage is more important than practicalities, won’t even allow us double glazing and I’m talking bespoke mega expensive joiner made thin profiles so as not to upset the public from twenty meters away. The oil system we have works fine and with the wood burners coming into winter it’s toastey but the heat we lose through the windows is scandalous but eh it’s heritage so it takes precedence

Can you not have secondary glazing.

Or call in some legal eco zealots to take the council to court!!! They seem to find court cases where others don't!!!

Cheers James

 

[dickm]

And another vote for Morso's Squirrel. Brilliant beasts!

 

[1steven]

Try living in a grade two listed cottage with a council who thinks looks and heritage is more important than practicalities, won’t even allow us double glazing and I’m talking bespoke mega expensive joiner made thin profiles so as not to upset the public from twenty meters away. The oil system we have works fine and with the wood burners coming into winter it’s toastey but the heat we lose through the windows is scandalous but eh it’s heritage so it takes precedence

I lived in a couple of listed buildings and find secondary glazing helps

 

[1steven]

This is very common in Germany. They put some sort of rigid foam on the outside of the building, typically 10cm or thicker, and then they render directly over that. They attach it with some sort of anchors that have large (8cm?) washers. I suppose you would need to do something around the windows as well, although most I time I saw it done, they were changing the windows at the same time. I spoke to an architect there and he said it was better to have the masonry inside the insulation, because then the wall stays warm.

They offered to fit that to my Croft on Orkney that was built in 1800 it would have trapped the water between the foam and the stone I declined.

 

[Skydivermel]

Interesting thread which I've been following along with. I'm in a 4 bed detached in Essex built circa 1982. Cavity Wall Insulation, 150mm Loft insulation, Double glazed with GCH. Only me & the missus rattling around in the place. Energy costs this coming year are going to be circa 1,500 - 2,000 PA. Boiler is circa 15- 20 years old and although working OK its probably time to replace it.

I looked into an ASHP. I've just had a quote for £14,225 installed which doesn't include the radiators. The grant available in April 22 is £5k. The current RHI is 10.92p kWh available for 7 years. This will give me around £9k back over that time, so my outlay will be in excess of £7K.

You cant get both the grant & the RHI, it's either or. So no incentive for me to splash out. So much for the govt wanting everyone to go green. So I guess for me it's a more energy efficient replacement boiler at 2K and be done with it.

 

[woodieallen]

...
Or call in some legal eco zealots to take the council to court!!! They seem to find court cases where others don't!!!

Cheers James

Too busy gluing themselves to the M25

 

[gmgmgm]

1) Keep the biomass boiler. No installation cost, but the cost of logs, combined with the physical work (and time) required to manage log stores and feed the boiler, not to mention the inconvenience makes this somewhat unappealing.

If you have your own supply of wood, then definitely keep the biomass boiler. If you don't then it's slightly tougher. But here are some thoughts based on indirect experience:
1. if you have the biomass boiler fitted outside and the pipes are accessible, you can (fairly) easily add more boilers to the circuit e.g. ASHP/GSHP or smaller wood-chip/pellet. This is a big advantage over starting from scratch.
2. ASHP is very convenient, switch-on, switch-off. As above, since you already have the piped circuit, it should be fairly easy to fit, and doesn't need to be huge, as it can run 24/7.
3. wood-chip is much more convenient than logs, but requires a decent volume for storage (garage/barn). Several people I know have a wood-chip boiler, but keep a stash of logs nearby as a backup. There are moving parts in a wood-chip boiler, and a bit more to go wrong. Can your biomass boiler handle wood-chip, and a feed/auger (many can have this added as an option)? Even if it's manual, shovelling woodchip can feel easier than handling logs. Store a pile of wood, then get a big chipper in every year or so.
4. wood pellet is the easiest system, but it's expensive as you need to buy in the pellets regularly, and store them somewhere dry.

 

[hairy]

I have a Dowling multi fuel in a rather small living room with six inch insulated ducting and an in line fan in the roof going to the main bedroom and the kitchen. Works brilliantly.

My Father in law did this but ducts from the ceiling in the heated room to the floor of an adjoining room, and the fans on the floor outlets rather than the ceiling inlets. His reasoning was there was no power in the warm ceiling area and he couldn't see any difference where the fans were.
Result 100% useless.
Because fans are better pushing at the start of the duct than pulling at the end????

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Hmmm ........ I don't know the physics of that. I didn't attempt to duct it down to floor level but I doubt that in itself would make much difference. I haven't actually tried it yet with the inline fan, but it worked well enough with the ceiling fan, and the inline one will be only a couple of feet away from where that was and it's three times the throughput without accounting for the grids being removed.

 

[Fordgate1]

Very thick insulating curtains

 

[Just4Fun]

My Father in law did this but ducts from the ceiling in the heated room to the floor of an adjoining room, and the fans on the floor outlets rather than the ceiling inlets. His reasoning was there was no power in the warm ceiling area and he couldn't see any difference where the fans were.

I did something similar. I made a hole at ceiling level between 2 rooms, one of which gets a lot hotter than than the other when my solar panels are working well. In the cooler room I ran a duct down to floor level and I put a fan at the top and bottom, but so far I have only connected the bottom fan. I have run a power supply up through the vertical ducting and over into the warmer room, I just have not yet got round to fitting the ceiling level fan.

Result 100% useless.

Yup ... same result here.
I will see if the situation improves when I install the celing level fan.

 

[Misterdog]

The cost of electricity is going to be lower than gas

Unit rates
Electricity: 19.89p per kWh

Gas: 3.94p per kWh


Though not at the minute !! ( my current tariff as of this week)..

In recent years, Great Britain has seen rapid growth in renewable electricity sources like wind and solar. Despite this, gas-fired power generation still provided approximately 42% of electricity demand in 2016.

 

[signalman steve]

Can you not have secondary glazing.

Or call in some legal eco zealots to take the council to court!!! They seem to find court cases where others don't!!!

Cheers James

Hi James , yes I could have but not a fan , am just old and grumpy , one of the few perks as you age

 

[sirocosm]

They offered to fit that to my Croft on Orkney that was built in 1800 it would have trapped the water between the foam and the stone I declined.

I don't think I would insulate an 1800s stone house on the outside, or even a nice brick house. We live in a 30s brick house with cavity wall on the main floor, and rendering it would ruin the look of the house, and the street, so we are not sure what to do. I would only insulate on the outside of a house made of block or crappy (ugly) brick. The architect in Germany told me that insulation on the outside shifts the dew point outward to within the insulation itself, with the masonry staying pretty much at the internal house temperature.

I also saw them doing this on new builds. Houses were mostly built out of blocks a full brick thick with cement slab (upper) floors that were partially poured in place. Rigid insulation was on the outside of the block. For the new houses they didn't use anchors, they used some kind of cement product to bond the insulation directly to the block, like a giant tile job. For some reason cavity wall with insulation in-between was not popular there, probably because few houses were finished in brick on the outside, they were all rendered.

 

[signalman steve]

I lived in a couple of listed buildings and find secondary glazing helps

She who must be obeyed doesn’t like them

 

[eribaMotters]

Unit rates
Electricity: 19.89p per kWh

Gas: 3.94p per kWh


Though not at the minute !! ( my current tariff as of this week)..

Mine is also way off at present:-
Electricity unit rate: 18.52p per kWh
Daily standing charge: 22.64p per day

Gas unit rate: 3.006p per kWh
Daily standing charge: 26.08p per day

Colin

 

[hairy]

insulation on the outside shifts the dew point outward to within the insulation itself, with the masonry staying pretty much at the internal house temperature.

The thatched house we used to live in had some sort of electric damp proof course, not sure what it actually was but the walls weren't damp.
Currently we have an old stone built building that one day I would like to make habitable. Within the walls is rubble and clay but the inside and outside faces are bare stone and beautifully made.
To insulate either face would be a shame, but the outside would at least make the whole thing more weather proof.
I thought that once the walls had dried out in time there wouldn't be anything much to condensate between the outer stone face and the insulation? Would there have to be a ventilated gap somehow too?

 

[Misterdog]

https://www.twistfix.co.uk/electro-osmosis-damp-proofing

 

[Misterdog]

The thatched house we used to live in had some sort of electric damp proof course, not sure what it actually was but the walls weren't damp

https://www.twistfix.co.uk/electro-osmosis-damp-proofing