Stupid finishing question of the day....

[OscarG]

I'm looking to dip my toe into the world of shellac. Watched a load of French polishing vids on youtube, it looks slow but I fancy having a go, problem is all the examples are on flat bits of wood.

I don't really make furniture, table tops, I'm more interested in making smaller things you can pick up like guitars/bandsaw boxes, little bits and bobs given as gifts, so is shellac/french polishing suitable for curved surface/irregular shaped items like that?

2nd dumb question, is all use of shellac "french polishing"?

 

[marcros]

I have used shellac on boxes and small items. I haven't used it in furniture sized pieces.

Personally, I would suggest getting a high quality mop brush and brushing it on. Takes a little practice and a bit of technique but isn't difficult. With regards to small items, it is fine, but the items that I would shy away from is those with nooks and crannies. If you can't get a brush into it easily, you won't get a pad into it.

French polish usually refers to the application with a polishing pad in very thin layers. Same stuff going on though.

 

[deema]

I once worked alongside a French Polisher for a couple of months and had a go at the time. I know eneough to know that French Polishing is a real profession. That said, French polishing a new item isn’t that difficult, it’s the eradicating marks / restoration to blend colours that’s the skill I believe.

French polishing only requires you to be able to flatten the surface after numerous applications of shellac before more applications in order to fill the grain and achieve the mirror surface. If you can sand / abraded the surface you can french polish it. Again, if you just want a resilient surface that’s not a mirror finish you can still use shellac, but then again why go to the effort when there are other products. Button polish for instance is similar but far easier to apply.

 

[Cordy]

Recently I bought Blonde Shellac flakes direct from India via the bay; decent quality, cheap enough -- about 2 weeks for delivery

Mixed with Meths to a '2 pound cut' it can give OK results
On Maple it needs to be diluted more; try one pound cut

Experimenting on scrap is a good idea

 

[OscarG]

Thanks guys!

Ah so that answered the another question I forgot to ask. All the US youtubers use "denatured alcohol" so that's "meths" in English money?

I always get confused between meths, white spirit and turps!

When I see youtubers talk about denatured alcohol or mineral spirits, I've no idea what they mean.

 

[thetyreman]

I prefer IPA Isopropyl alcohol to meths for the base of all shellac, there's no purple tinge, and it doesn't cost that much more.

 

[marcros]

denatured is meths but isopropyl alcohol or surgical spirit will do the same.
mineral spirits are what we call white spirit.

not entirely sure what turps substitute is, so best avoided IMHO. proper terps smells nice in polishes, but is expensive.

 

[custard]

I don't really make furniture, table tops, I'm more interested in making smaller things you can pick up like guitars/bandsaw boxes, little bits and bobs given as gifts, so is shellac/french polishing suitable for curved surface/irregular shaped items like that?

2nd dumb question, is all use of shellac "french polishing"?

The french polishing techniques you've seen demonstrated on YouTube are perfectly relevant for smaller items like guitars, I regularly french polish small items like jewellery boxes.

A carved item can still have shellac brushed on. Would that still be called french polished? I tend to called brushed work "shellacked" but when the polish is applied with a rubber I call it french polishing. But, hey. the terminology is a bit loose and fuzzy so you call it whatever you like!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

denatured is meths but isopropyl alcohol or surgical spirit will do the same.
mineral spirits are what we call white spirit.

not entirely sure what turps substitute is, so best avoided IMHO. proper terps smells nice in polishes, but is expensive.

Turpentine and turpentine substitute are totally different things. It is better to use white spirit than turps sub (other than for cleaning brushes, maybe) as it carries a B.S. number - B.S 245 - or if it doesn't it has to comply to the same standard to be legally sold as white spirit. (From the horse's mouth - Tradings Standards). Turbs sub. can be anything the manufacture has a surplus of on the day.

 

[OscarG]

One more stupid question!.... getting 'em all out before 2019

If you wanted to have shellac finish with either a brush or rubber/pad thing would you use a shellac sanding sealer first?

 

[Just4Fun]

As I understand it shellac sanding sealer is just a more diluted shellac so I wouldn't bother.

I French polished a piece I made, a sort of lectern. It had telescopic legs to make the height adjustable, with 3 pieces sliding within each other. Lots of tricky areas to get into, but the end result was fine. On another piece I tried applying shellac with a brush but I was less happy with those results. Of course that was most likely operator error so you could get a better finish than I did.

 

[custard]

would you use a shellac sanding sealer first?

Personally the answer is no, I wouldn't. However, your question raises another interesting point.

If I prepared two test pieces, one french polished and one finished with sanding sealer followed by a coat or two of hard wax, how many people could tell the difference?

Not that many is the truth. And if you want a decent gloss, fast, and relatively low skill finishing routine then sanding sealer/wax is the way to go. It used to be a hugely popular technique but has slipped a bit recently, probably because gloss is less fashionable and people have gotten out of the habit of using drinks coasters so any shellac based finish becomes a bit vulnerable.

This is Ash (super open grained timber so tricky to grain fill for a gloss result) finished with sanding sealer and hard wax. This is a five minute job that an eight year old could do, if it's the look you want then that'd be what I'd recommend!

 

[dzj]

French polish requires a drop or 2 of mineral oil on the pad. That's what gives it a high gloss.
You can apply regular shellac with a pad or brush or spray, but it won't be that glossy.

 

[marcros]

Is that correct? I was under the impression that the oil was for lubrication. The pad or brush etc is a way of getting the material onto the wood.

I am going to try the dealer and wax approach. Is there a recipe for sanding sealer from flakes or is it just a light mix of the French polish?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Every time s/sealer + wax for a finish crops up , I remember a comment made here a few years ago (by, I iirc Woodfinish Man - who hasn't been here for a few years) - why would anyone choose to use for a finish a product specifically designed to be easily scratched? :? Seems a fair comment to me.

 

[custard]

French polish requires a drop or 2 of mineral oil on the pad. That's what gives it a high gloss.

Not quite. You don't always need oil. The more experienced you are the less oil you tend to use. And the purpose of the oil is lubrication not gloss.

 

[custard]

Every time s/sealer + wax for a finish crops up , I remember a comment made here a few years ago (by, I iirc Woodfinish Man - who hasn't been here for a few years) - why would anyone choose to use for a finish a product specifically designed to be easily scratched? :? Seems a fair comment to me.

Seems a pretty daft comment to me Phil.

Someone may well choose that finish for anything that's unlikely to be abraded! It's really not brain surgery. So, not great for floors, but I've seen all manner of projects, from jewellery boxes to occasional tables, that have looked stunning for many years with just a sanding sealer and wax finish.

 

[marcros]

But here the sealer is only to prevent the wax soaking into the timber. The finish is the wax itself, with the advantages and disadvantages, suitability and otherwise of wax as a finish.

 

[dzj]

French polish requires a drop or 2 of mineral oil on the pad. That's what gives it a high gloss.

Not quite. You don't always need oil. The more experienced you are the less oil you tend to use. And the purpose of the oil is lubrication not gloss.

Which ingredient in French polish would you say is responsible for the mirror-like finish (apart from elbow grease ), that sets it apart from plain cut shellac? The recipes I've seen suggest a half dozen things in the alcohol based concoction and also a variety of different oils (poppy, walnut...).
The various fillers they suggest are also numerous.
Thx.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Every time s/sealer + wax for a finish crops up , I remember a comment made here a few years ago (by, I iirc Woodfinish Man - who hasn't been here for a few years) - why would anyone choose to use for a finish a product specifically designed to be easily scratched? :? Seems a fair comment to me.

Seems a pretty daft comment to me Phil.

Someone may well choose that finish for anything that's unlikely to be abraded! It's really not brain surgery. So, not great for floors, but I've seen all manner of projects, from jewellery boxes to occasional tables, that have looked stunning for many years with just a sanding sealer and wax finish.

Made perfect sense to me. Each to their own - I only use it for a finish out of desperation.