Stock Reduction and Straightening with a Jack Plane?

[Paul Chapman]

Here's another video - but there's lots of you-tube

http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/th ... k-by-hand/

Just watched that video and I reckon that bloke was making a bit of a meal of thicknessing that board. Doing it all by hand is hard work but not as hard as he was making it look. I don't think he had his planes set up as well as he could and he might have done better to have used a toothed blade in between the scrub and jack.

Hope nobody is put off by watching the way he did it. It really isn't as hard as he made it look.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Richard T]

He was tearing along the back edges too and only mentioned chamfering down to the line as a late thought ... I would have done so a lot sooner and on both sides too.

It must be hard to keep your mind on everything when you are trying to make a video on your own though.

I did like the winding sticks cam view

 

[Jacob]

I got too bored after 5 minutes and stopped watching.
He was using a scrub plane and the resulting surface was rougher than when he started - complete waste of time. It took him 5 minutes (plus ads at the start) to pointlessly rough up this bit of wood!
Just shows how cautious you have to be with youtube demos.
I don't know how he got on after the scrub plane but I suspect it'd be nonsense.
This is one man not to watch.

I don't particularly agree with Dovetaildave about super flatness. A lot of people get over bothered about this. When you plane the face the underside will be uneven and will not sit on a flat surface anyway. You'd probably hold it in a vice, or just plane it on top against a stop, with a wedge or two to stop it rocking. Having done that (and an edge) you can do the other side with your face sitting on the bench - but an ordinary degree of flatness will do. Wedge if necessary to stop it rocking.
You get flatnes not by reference to another surface, but by looking at the surface you are working on and checking with winding sticks, straight edges etc. adapting your technique accordingly (i.e. taking off the high points)

 

[Vann]

I wonder if the OP is making the same mistake as many starting with handplanes*: you repeated push the plane from one end to the other (like machining) and then wonder why your timber isn't anywhere near true and flat.

I think Jacob has nailed it...

You get flatnes.... ...by looking at the surface you are working on and checking with winding sticks, straight edges etc. adapting your technique accordingly (i.e. taking off the high points)

Checking frequently, and working on the high points.

Cheers, Vann

*I'm not that far from this stage myself

 

[bugbear]

I wonder if the OP is making the same mistake as many starting with handplanes*: you repeated push the plane from one end to the other (like machining) and then wonder why your timber isn't anywhere near true and flat.

Unless you've been told the classic "try to plane hollow" idea, you'll almost certainly make a convex board that way.

BugBear

 

[morfa]

I got too bored after 5 minutes and stopped watching.
He was using a scrub plane and the resulting surface was rougher than when he started - complete waste of time. It took him 5 minutes (plus ads at the start) to pointlessly rough up this bit of wood!
Just shows how cautious you have to be with youtube demos.
I don't know how he got on after the scrub plane but I suspect it'd be nonsense.
This is one man not to watch.

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but this chap runs this online woodworking school, which you're charged to watch the videos:

http://www.handtoolschool.net/

Currently $200 per semester which is 40 hours of videos. But if they're all like that, I'm not sure it's worth it. Still if he's selling them, even if it's only a few, it's a nice bit of pocket money.

Paul and Jacob - you both say that he's making a bit of a meal of it, but don't say how you'd do it, any chance of a quick explanation please? Also how long do you reckon you'd take to do a similar thing?

 

[Jacob]

I didn't watch to the end - he was making a boring meal of the video, let alone the actual planing!

If I was doing it I'd make sure it was close to finish size first, say about 6mm over each way. Saw, axe, and yes a scrub plane for rapid removal if all else fails. I've got a ECE scrub. It's not an essential but can come in handy.
Then flatten the best side first. The idea here is to remove only a little from the good side because as you go down, the knots and defects get bigger i.e. they are worse on the worse side, by definition.
I'd do it with a 5 1/2 or a 7 (both cambered blades - straight blades make life difficult). If twisted then diagonally across the high points, otherwise just fore and aft. Checking all the while, across (winding sticks) and along the length (straight edge, plane edge, eyeball). Not necessarily finished yet - see below.

Then plane an edge square and straight.
Then mark all round for the desired depth thickness and plane down to it. I might check the best side in case it bends as material is removed, and remedy it accordingly.
Then mark and plane the other edge.
Then finish all sides to whatever standard required.

 

[Richard T]

That's pretty much what he did Jacob, except he used a scrub followed by a jack. And as I said before he did not plain down to the lines first .... but otherwise it was a pretty good demo I thought.

He started with the scrub on the good side because of the horrible knot (worse on the bad side) for speed I expect. The knot turned out to be quite proud of the rest of that face.

Pretty much what I'd do too if I could resist the temptation to just run it through the saw mill first .... half an inch off something that size is always going to be a bit of a work out whatever the plane.

 

[Charles Stanford]

Hi all,
I recently got my first and only two planes, the Record 04 smoothing plane and 05 jack (thanks to GazPal, who very kindly gave it to me ).
Well you've probably already sensed that I've never touched a plane before... So I'm kinda in need for a lot of help here...

I don't have any problems with the 04. It's a joy to use. The 05 was also fine... That was until I tried to take off large shavings with it...
I want to reduce the width of some 44x94 mm stock (just think of it as 2 by 4) because it came with all its edges pre-rounded :evil: I don't get why the hell that was done, but I wanted to laminate some stocks and these rounded edges are certainly unwanted. The only way to get rid of this that i can think of is reducing the stock's size.
Anyways, I adjusted the depth of cut on the 05 jack plane and went ahead to take large shavings off of the stock with it. I moved the plane at a 30 degree angle to the length of the stock. It planed smoothly but I couldn't maintain a consistent width either across the width or along the length... There was an 8 mm difference in thickness over about 1.5 m of stock, and that was after I straightened it (trust me, it was that bad). For across the width (94 mm), there was sort of a bevel of about 8 degrees. I know... It's terrible right... But I guess this is what you get when there's no one to teach you in person.
It's obvious there something very wrong in my technique... so could someone help me find a video or book that thoroughly explains how to resize and straighten stocks with a jack plane? Or you can just give me a few tips and I'll try'em out.

Thanks

Sam

Purposely set the cutter askew in the mouth and plane diagonally across the board in an overlapping pattern for quick stock removal.

I think others have already covered the sequence of actual steps needed to four-square a board. As for using a metal jack for removing a lot of material quickly (assuming you know where it needs to be, and should be, removed) the technique in my first sentence applies.

 

[J_SAMa]

I tried it once again last evening and the results were much better than the first time. What I did was essentially going back and forth between planing at 30 degrees to the grain and along the grain. I increased the cutting depth and planed at 30 degrees until all of the surface was covered, then I tuned the cutting depth down and made a few passes along the grain to straighten the surface. I then basically repeated these two steps for a couple of times, and the results were OK. No winding across the width and just slightly concave (about 1 mm lower) in the middle along the length.
---------------------------------------------------------
Would you recommend me getting a jointer plane if I had the money or should I just stick to the jack and practice my technique first?

 

[Richard T]

You could get a second iron for the jack to keep at a squarer edge to go over the humps left by the heavier camber. A bit of a faff but quite possible.

Though the cheapest and most agreeable option would probably be to have two #5s one for a cambered iron (fore plane) and one with a straighter edge (try plane). #5s are very common and very cheap.

Another very cheap option would be to use a longer wooden plane as a try. The only problem with this is the time it takes to learn how to set the iron with the wedge but once learnt this is an invaluable skill. (I'm still learning myself).

 

[GazPal]

I didn't watch to the end - he was making a boring meal of the video, let alone the actual planing!

If I was doing it I'd make sure it was close to finish size first, say about 6mm over each way. Saw, axe, and yes a scrub plane for rapid removal if all else fails. I've got a ECE scrub. It's not an essential but can come in handy.
Then flatten the best side first. The idea here is to remove only a little from the good side because as you go down, the knots and defects get bigger i.e. they are worse on the worse side, by definition.
I'd do it with a 5 1/2 or a 7 (both cambered blades - straight blades make life difficult). If twisted then diagonally across the high points, otherwise just fore and aft. Checking all the while, across (winding sticks) and along the length (straight edge, plane edge, eyeball). Not necessarily finished yet - see below.

Then plane an edge square and straight.
Then mark all round for the desired depth thickness and plane down to it. I might check the best side in case it bends as material is removed, and remedy it accordingly.
Then mark and plane the other edge.
Then finish all sides to whatever standard required.

I tried to post a fairly lengthy reply along the same lines earlier, but my server dropped off the face of the earth as I submitted the post :?

As always Jacob..... Address face side and edge before reducing for thickness and width, but use stock that's marginally over-sized, or be prepared to reduce stock - by saw, hatchet or slave labour (Kidding) - to within a gnat's whisker of final finished dimensions before hitting it with a plane.

------------

Standard manufacturer's plane irons are perfectly fine for use in the planes they make. ;-)

 

[GazPal]

Here's a picture showing the underside of a scrub (Top) and #05 Jack plane set up

 

[Jacob]

....
Would you recommend me getting a jointer plane if I had the money or should I just stick to the jack and practice my technique first?

I wouldn't get another plane until you don't need one i.e. you are on top of the jack and can do virtually everything with it anyway.

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi all,

This afternoon I tried to put a camber on the blade, but I couldn't. Even my coarsest sandpaper was not removing metal quickly enough and it was just going nowhere. So I decided not to waste my time and just round the corner of the blade instead. It still left planing tracks, but certainly planed much more smoothly than before.
I think I need a diamond stone... And maybe a honing guide, because honing plane blades freehand is just much more difficult than honing chisels freehand... And if I get one with a narrow roller I might be able to rock it left and right to get the camber.

Sam

 

[Richard T]

Hi Sam,

A (much) cheaper alternative to a diamond stone coarse enough to cut a proper camber is to stick down a strip of extremely coarse metal cloth to a flat bit of board with good double sided tape.

 

[Jacob]

Hi all,

This afternoon I tried to put a camber on the blade, but I couldn't. Even my coarsest sandpaper was not removing metal quickly enough and it was just going nowhere. So I decided not to waste my time and just round the corner of the blade instead. It still left planing tracks, but certainly planed much more smoothly than before.
I think I need a diamond stone... And maybe a honing guide, because honing plane blades freehand is just much more difficult than honing chisels freehand... And if I get one with a narrow roller I might be able to rock it left and right to get the camber.

Sam

You need a grindwheel to re-shape the blade.
Or on a flat stone you can just apply pressure towards cambering, every time you sharpen, so that a camber forms slowly with use.
I wouldn't bother with a honing guide - in spite of appearances they make sharpening more difficult and more expensive.

 

[GazPal]

Hi all,

This afternoon I tried to put a camber on the blade, but I couldn't. Even my coarsest sandpaper was not removing metal quickly enough and it was just going nowhere. So I decided not to waste my time and just round the corner of the blade instead. It still left planing tracks, but certainly planed much more smoothly than before.
I think I need a diamond stone... And maybe a honing guide, because honing plane blades freehand is just much more difficult than honing chisels freehand... And if I get one with a narrow roller I might be able to rock it left and right to get the camber.

Sam

I could have included a combination stone in the package if I'd realised you didn't yet have the means to adequately prepare irons or sharpen. With all due respect, considering the money you saved when I invested in your future woodworking by gifting you both planes, I honestly suggest you need to invest part of this saving - what you could have spent on the two planes - in sharpening kit, beginning with a combination course and fine india oil stone. Very little initial cost as you build your kit, yet vastly superior to your present set up. Most British apprentices and craftsmen used precisely the same stones right up until Diamond and Japanese water stones entered the scene, while many continue to use them. :wink:

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi all,

This afternoon I tried to put a camber on the blade, but I couldn't. Even my coarsest sandpaper was not removing metal quickly enough and it was just going nowhere. So I decided not to waste my time and just round the corner of the blade instead. It still left planing tracks, but certainly planed much more smoothly than before.
I think I need a diamond stone... And maybe a honing guide, because honing plane blades freehand is just much more difficult than honing chisels freehand... And if I get one with a narrow roller I might be able to rock it left and right to get the camber.

Sam

I could have included a combination stone in the package if I'd realised you didn't yet have the means to adequately prepare irons or sharpen. With all due respect, considering the money you saved when I invested in your future woodworking by gifting you both planes, I honestly suggest you need to invest part of this saving - what you could have spent on the two planes - in sharpening kit, beginning with a combination course and fine india oil stone. Very little initial cost as you build your kit, yet vastly superior to your present set up. Most British apprentices and craftsmen used precisely the same stones right up until Diamond and Japanese water stones entered the scene, while many continue to use them. :wink:

Hi Gary,
Here's my current setup, please take a look and tell me how I can improve it :
180 grit sandpaper (which doesn't remove metal as quickly as I want it to :x )
1000/3000 combination waterstone for general sharpening
6000 and 12000 micro-mesh sandpaper for polishing

I was just about to place my order for the diamond paste. Maybe i could add something else to the order...

I guess it's not really because my sharpening setup is not good enough. It's something with my technique that's not allowing me to remove metal quickly on coarse sandpaper. IMO 180 grit should be quite coarse... Applying pressure to the corners only seem to round the corner off and I was still nowhere near the camber I wanted (10 inch in radius) after 20 minutes...

About oilstones... Well, IMHO waterstones are just as good as them so I don't think I'll need them for now

Thanks, I know I've been asking a lot of stupid questions

Sam

 

[Jacob]

If you want to shape a camber with emery paper you need (a lot of) 40 to 60 grit. Much easier (and cheaper) to do it on a coarse stone. 6" grindwheel even better.
NB By the sounds of it you most definitely do need a combi oil stone. This is all you need until your technique gets a lot better, if then.