MikeG.
Established Member
I have seen a Record plane with "SS" on the cap iron, and "Stay Set" in its name. Can someone tell me what this is all about, and what difference it makes? What problem does it solve?
"Stay Set" plane: can someone explain?
- Thread starter MikeG.
- Start date
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The cap iron stays set in its position on the iron. When the iron needs sharpening, you don't need to unscrew the cap iron. You just lift off the front portion, exposing the bit you need to sharpen, then replace it afterwards. This front part is held by a mating groove, with pressure from the lever cap.
So a quick hone is even quicker, making it easier to sharpen when needed rather than putting it off.
So a quick hone is even quicker, making it easier to sharpen when needed rather than putting it off.
MikeG.
Established Member
Thanks Andy.
Would that interfere with a honing guide? Can you work on both sides of the blade when sharpening? Oh, and does the pre-set nature allow you to set the cap iron where you want in relation to the cutting edge of the iron?
Would that interfere with a honing guide? Can you work on both sides of the blade when sharpening? Oh, and does the pre-set nature allow you to set the cap iron where you want in relation to the cutting edge of the iron?
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
They are for free handing only. It's about a quick turnaround, which excludes honing guides anyway.
Iv'e got a few and they are handy but not essential. They do speed up honing.
They also seat very well when you drop them back on - the cap iron edge will engage very tightly with the blade. This is due to a not very obvious but clever design detail - the rear part of the bit that drops off, where it sits in the slot, is a loose fit and rocks from side to side slightly. This means it isn't constrained so the front edge self aligns tight against the blade.
Iv'e got a few and they are handy but not essential. They do speed up honing.
They also seat very well when you drop them back on - the cap iron edge will engage very tightly with the blade. This is due to a not very obvious but clever design detail - the rear part of the bit that drops off, where it sits in the slot, is a loose fit and rocks from side to side slightly. This means it isn't constrained so the front edge self aligns tight against the blade.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Basically you set it as one - it just allows you to remove the front part and replace it in exactly the same place. I've never used any guides so I can't answer that one, but yes, you can still work the bottom part of the flat side. Obviously you can't put the whole iron flat on the stone.
MikeG.
Established Member
Thanks guys. I've got the idea now.......
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
I like SS as I think the cap iron works better.
Also as Jacob says it makes things a bit easier to touch up the blade during a job, thus you ( or at least I) am more likely to do it rather than soldiering on for a bit longer.
You can use it in a jig, but l free hand anyway.
If it's a reasonable price snap it up.
I seem to remember there used to be folks here who don't like them but not sure why.
Also as Jacob says it makes things a bit easier to touch up the blade during a job, thus you ( or at least I) am more likely to do it rather than soldiering on for a bit longer.
You can use it in a jig, but l free hand anyway.
If it's a reasonable price snap it up.
I seem to remember there used to be folks here who don't like them but not sure why.
Woodbloke used to complain about dropping the removable front piece and losing it in the shavings.
Other people develop the habit of removing the lever cap with the plane the right way up, so gravity works for you, not against.
Other people develop the habit of removing the lever cap with the plane the right way up, so gravity works for you, not against.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
oops yes I was wrong it does work with an Eclipse guide. Maybe it's the Stanley guide - I couldn't find it I might have binned it.
Record made several great claims about the stay set design:
IMO the best one is 'adds greatly to the rigidity of the plane’
... which it actually does. The effect is a bit odd, but the plane somehow feels more solid when used with a SS cap iron compared with the standard fare*.
I am not sure why they never caught on - I seem to remember they were sold for the same price as the 'normals'. Perhaps people got tired of continually dropping the loose bit on their toes.
* NB there are SS-deniers who claim the rigidity effect is a figment of our collective imaginations. Don't take their word for it!
IMO the best one is 'adds greatly to the rigidity of the plane’
... which it actually does. The effect is a bit odd, but the plane somehow feels more solid when used with a SS cap iron compared with the standard fare*.
I am not sure why they never caught on - I seem to remember they were sold for the same price as the 'normals'. Perhaps people got tired of continually dropping the loose bit on their toes.
* NB there are SS-deniers who claim the rigidity effect is a figment of our collective imaginations. Don't take their word for it!
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Agree.
I think the rigidity may be due to the way the load from the lever cap is distributed exactly to the front/rear edges of the SS top piece, without working against the spring or other misalignment of a normal cap iron. In turn it holds the blade down at these two points and at the other end under the lever cam. It delivers the load precisely to three points.
PS. er - I just read the brochure it says the same thing! There yer go great minds think alike! And it's called a deflector which I also hadn't noticed.
If you set the cap iron close and dimension a fair bit, you'll find the stayset cap allows chips under more easily than a well made or well set bailey cap iron.
I tried three of them. Liked them, but more often with all had problems with shavings getting trapped and sold them (staysets sell really well here in the states because they're sort of a gimmick, and every less common gimmick sells well here unless it's complete junk).
I see the efficacy of the design for site work, though.
I tried three of them. Liked them, but more often with all had problems with shavings getting trapped and sold them (staysets sell really well here in the states because they're sort of a gimmick, and every less common gimmick sells well here unless it's complete junk).
I see the efficacy of the design for site work, though.
I agree with that, despite a fair amount of fettling:
...I still occasionally get shavings caught in the SS cap iron (particularly when set close) but not so with the ordinary cap iron. I suppose that little bit of spring in the older design really helps to minimise the gap at the critical point.
BTW A much better solution for adding that feeling of solidness to your planes is the Miller Falls 2-part lever cap.
...I still occasionally get shavings caught in the SS cap iron (particularly when set close) but not so with the ordinary cap iron. I suppose that little bit of spring in the older design really helps to minimise the gap at the critical point.
BTW A much better solution for adding that feeling of solidness to your planes is the Miller Falls 2-part lever cap.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I'm surprised - looking at mine it's impossible for chipping to get under and they never have.
Could it be:
The front edge of the deflector needs to be straight (obviously) but also undercut so that only the very edge engages with the face of the blade.
The front end of the other bit wotsit called, where the pin is - needs to have a very slight sloping shoulder from the pin to the edges. The deflector should rock very slightly as though a bad fit. This leaves it possible for the front edge to self align and engage tight with the blade.
i.e. the back edge of the deflector only makes tight contact with the other piece at or near the middle, close to the pin.
Could it be:
The front edge of the deflector needs to be straight (obviously) but also undercut so that only the very edge engages with the face of the blade.
The front end of the other bit wotsit called, where the pin is - needs to have a very slight sloping shoulder from the pin to the edges. The deflector should rock very slightly as though a bad fit. This leaves it possible for the front edge to self align and engage tight with the blade.
i.e. the back edge of the deflector only makes tight contact with the other piece at or near the middle, close to the pin.
Agree on all of those things, Jacob, except when you push it with hardwoods, mine still let more through than a Bailey design. I have had a couple of bad Bailey's, too, but those were modern irons where the spring wasn't right.
When you plane something like cocobolo or good rosewood, the jailbreak rate goes up substantially because of the stiffness of wood combined with the need for the cap iron to be close set to control tearout.
When you plane something like cocobolo or good rosewood, the jailbreak rate goes up substantially because of the stiffness of wood combined with the need for the cap iron to be close set to control tearout.
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
Whilst it's not really a problem, more of a characteristic of the stay set type of cap iron on, for example, a Clifton plane, I find the feature has its 'stay set' limitations particularly if the deflector part of the cap iron is already set very close to the cutting edge of the blade at resharpening time. The reason being, of course, that resharpening moves the cutting edge further up the blade which shortens the distance between the leading edges of both the blade and the removable 'deflector'. However, even when the two edges are set very close together for a particular operation I usually find there's two or three sharpenings available before the whole of the cap iron needs to be repositioned. Slainte.
Sheffield Tony
Ghost of the disenchanted
An oddity of the Record StaySet is that - IIRC - they were made as a fitted pair. So the ones you see on Ebay with the toe piece missing really are useless, and it is important not to muddle them up if you have, say, a #4 and a #5 which look on the face if it the same.
I do like them. Even if you still remove the whole thing for sharpening ! I think they do somehow make the plane feel more solid, and I haven't yet got shavings trapped under them. I've got both the Record and Clifton versions, and I think the Record one was generally the better made of the two.
I think I'm right - though not very confidently - in thinking that the StaySet lever cap was slightly shorter than the regular one ? That might be a factor in how tightly the cap iron sits.
I do like them. Even if you still remove the whole thing for sharpening ! I think they do somehow make the plane feel more solid, and I haven't yet got shavings trapped under them. I've got both the Record and Clifton versions, and I think the Record one was generally the better made of the two.
I think I'm right - though not very confidently - in thinking that the StaySet lever cap was slightly shorter than the regular one ? That might be a factor in how tightly the cap iron sits.
Racers
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If you have a useless one with the toe piece missing please send it to me, I have made a couple of replacement toes on for a 2 3/8" and one for a 2 5/8" which made my Record No8 work very well.
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Pete
post1151805.html?hilit=stay%20set#p1151805
Pete
