Startrite 352, advice please!

[Lons]

I've just bought an old Startrite 352 and given it a quick once over.
Guide blocks are salvagable and I've trued them up flat and square so should be ok for a while but the thrust rods are shot. Carbide tips seem to have gone and the ends are badly grooved. I've rotated them and turned one back to front as a temporary "fix" but they won't last long.

I'm a bit shocked that a pair of rods will cost more than £60 delivered and wondered if there is an alternative or even if I can make some up myself. I have plenty of mild steel rod of the correct dia and could possible get hold of tool steel. I also have an ark welder which I think has brazing attachment of some kind (never tried it) but where would I get the carbide? I've looked through all I can think of including masonary drills. Would it be practical / possible to turn one of these down and grind the tip, I have a small metal lathe and a number of surplus large sds drill bits.
The bandsaw won't be heavily used btw so the temptation is just use mild steel and keep replacing but I'd risk overheating the blade or some HSS and harden the end?

I've done a search and looked also on youtube and the web but any advice or opinions offered would be greatly appreciated.

I'm impressed with the saw - built like a brick sh**house

Bob

 

[marcros]

Can you post a pic of the part bob?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

A different approach but if you have welding and/or milling gear why not improvise a component that allows a flat to be ground at the end upon which you mount (bolted) a bought bearing and thus avoid the need for a carbide tip. Many modern bandsaws have taken that approach anyway.

I once replaced a thrust bearing on a bandsaw that the manufacturer wanted to charge me £18 for. Got it for £2 from a bearing specialist. Going down that path, just buy 3 bearings and you're done for life.

 

[Spindle]

Hi

If it's just rod you need to fabricate the parts I'd suggest you bought silver steel:

http://chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Metric_S ... ngths.html

Relatively easy to work in it's supplied, (annealed), state on the lathe and easily tempered with a blow or gas torch.

Failing that a picture of the errant bits would help.

Regards Mick

 

[Racers]

That's the rod and my bearing mod.

You should be able to un-braze the tip from a masonry drill and braze it on, grinding it would be fun without the right wheel.

Pete

 

[Argus]

.

That's exactly what happened to mine when it was new ( about 20 years ago).

The two thrust rods had a shallow hard steel tip, a bit like a snooker cue tip, contact welded (soldered, most likely) on the ends and they came off with friction.
I think that there must have been a bad batch.

At that time, I readily got some spares from Startrite's agent which have been on ever since with no problems.

It's just the tip that needs to be hard (and smooth) because it is set up with a few thou gap when the blade is at rest and rubs on the back edge when cutting.

I suppose that the answer is a pair of spares or a bit of tool steel of the right diameter and length.

I have the original manual as a PDF if it's any use to you, which if memory serves, has some parts numbers.. .

.

 

[dickm]

The rear bearing on my 352 is getting similarly worn - there's only so many times you can rotate it 45 degrees! So will need to do something about it at some time. Wondering if the disposrable carbide inserts that you can get for metalworking would be a suitable replacement, ground to shape with a green grit stone?
Anyone know an appropriate source?

Interested in Pete M's modification too, though still happy with the old solid metal guides.

 

[Lons]

Thanks for the replies and the pms guys, much appreciated

You should be able to un-braze the tip from a masonry drill and braze it on, grinding it would be fun without the right wheel

Pete.
I like the bearing supports and will probably look at that when the solid guides are shot. Is the rod original or made up?
Is the whiole end of a masonary drill carbide / tungston or just the cutting tips?

If it's just rod you need to fabricate the parts I'd suggest you bought silver steel: http://chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Metric_S ... ngths.html

Thanks Mick
Along the lines I was thinking, or HSS

A different approach but if you have welding and/or milling gear why not improvise a component that allows a flat to be ground at the end upon which you mount (bolted) a bought bearing and thus avoid the need for a carbide tip. Many modern bandsaws have taken that approach anyway.

Bob
I don't have the equipment to do any milling but have a nice little Cowell 90ME lathe so could turn something. I also have loads of tooling so could probably fashion something, maybe turn down some thick rod leaving a flange to bolt the bearing. My welding skills aren't good but even I could weld a plate to carry a bearing on the end of a rod so many thanks will look at that.

Hi Argus
I've downloaded a couple of pdf files but not certain they're right so would definitely appreciate your copy. Will pm you my email address. :-D

Can you post a pic of the part bob?

Hi Marcros

pics below
Existing top rod is 58mm long (presumably longer with the tip in place) and about 10mm dia though I suspect that's possibly imp 3/8"
I've just been quoted by ALT for a pair of rods which including VAT and post comes to £52 42 which I think is expensive. They also quoted for the bearing guide upgrade top only is £107.34 or £202.74 for a pair :shock: Won't be doing that especially when the Axi ones are £50 and b*gger all if DIY made.
Pic is of the upper rod which is in a shocking state.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've "Hilti" bits that are carbide ended rather than tipped - I suppose if the shank of the drill was the right size you could actually use the bit with end the ground flat. Probably stupid, but just a thought.

 

[Lons]

I've "Hilti" bits that are carbide ended rather than tipped - I suppose if the shank of the drill was the right size you could actually use the bit with end the ground flat. Probably stupid, but just a thought.

Dunno what happened to muy post???

Do you have a link phil or pics? I have loads of sds bits but none flat ended. Wonder if I could turn down the shank of an oversized bit even if have to anneal it first - never done that before!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No, they're not flat ended. The whole end is carbide, not just the inserts - so it should be possible with the correct stone to grind them flat. If you could find one with the right sized shank (with my luck I wouldn't) the end would be bigger - but all that would mean is it would have to be inserted from the front. Sorry, I've no link or pictures - I can't get to my stuff at the moment. They were SDS bought at an agricultural show. I should think you could turn the shanks, they wouldn't be hardened (I wouldn't have thought).
You could actually sleeve a smaller one so long as the bearing surface was adequate.

 

[Lons]

Thanks Phil
I'll have a poke among my forgotten stuff ("treasure") tomorrow to see what I can find. Bound to get distracted by what I find :wink: #-o

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Get a carbide turning tool insert of some description, and JB Weld it to the existing rod?

 

[Racers]

Hi Lons

The rod is original.

A solid carbide milling cutter would work.

The bearing mod only cost £5 for the bearings I had the washers and used the original bolts, it makes curved cuts a lot easer now.

Pete

 

[Lons]

Thanks Pete, I saw your original mod post before starting the thread and copied it for future reference as it looks so effective and simple (also cheap).

I'd like to roughly date my saw if possible but Startrite can only tell me that it's probably 15 to 20 years old as serial number records aren't available from the previos factory.
I think it could possibly be older though it doesn't matter as it's just out of interest.

Serial on mine is 96896, how does that compare with others on the forum?

cheers

Bob

 

[acewoodturner]

Hi Pete
Could you let me know what are the sizes of the bearings you have used here as I want to do the same to my 352.
cheers

Mike

 

[srp]

I got rid of my original guides and replaced with a guide set from Axminster. Part of the reason was that I also had trouble with the tips falling off - I used to spend hours digging through sawdust to find them and then braze them back on again.
You need to have access to a pillar drill and some welding or brazing gear to make up the adaptors to fit the kit to the existing Startrite adjustable rods that carry the guides.
Top guide shown fitted in place

Top guide components - the fitting I made is a bit of ½" ms bar, a bit of ¾" round bar on one side (fixed with a csk m/c screw) and a bit of tube (¾ "id if I remember - it has to fit the Startrite post) welded on to the other face.

The bottom guide assembly:

Assembled onto Startrite post:

...and in bits - 2 threaded holes for attaching the Axinster guide to the plate, and one counterbored for attaching to the post:

I had to modify one of the Axminster parts - the bottom guide - as their wasn't enough room for it to fit between the blade and the table quadrant. I'm pretty sure all I did was to shorten the bar on which the thrust bearing was mounted, and dispense with the screw adjust mechanism (i.e. the back and forth adjustment).
No apologies for the size of the photos - they need to be big to see the details.*
Replacement bearings are easily obtainable from Simply Bearings - I replace mine now and again, using the RS variety, i.e. 2 rubber seals.

*edit - I see the forum software has resized them - if you click you should be able to view them at full size

 

[Racers]

Hi Pete
Could you let me know what are the sizes of the bearings you have used here as I want to do the same to my 352.
cheers

Mike

Hi Mike

628 2RS from Bearing Options they where 99p each and 99p for postage.

http://www.bearingoptions.co.uk/index.a ... ion=SEARCH


Pete

Found these http://www.akbearings.co.uk/product.asp ... ry=related