Starting out with rough sawn

[Ozzie36]

Hello all,

I’ve been woodworking for a little while now and have completed a fair few projects that I’m quite pleased with. All of which have been with pre planed European oak from Ron Currie in Mansfield. I’ve had no issues with the timber but I’m starting to get fed up with the extortionate cost of paying someone to mill timber for me.

So I’m taking the plunge into rough sawn timber for the first time. My issue is that I don’t have the machinery to do it. I know I need a table saw and a planer thicknesser but I’m struggling on exactly what to get. I’ve been researching hard but I’m currently coming up stumps and hence I’ve come here for help

I am a big advocate of ‘buy nice or buy twice’ but at the same time I can’t really afford to drop 5 grand on proper decent stuff.

My budget is about a grand in total for the two. Could I please have your recommendations? Any help would be greatly appreciated indeed!

Thanks in advance, Ozzie.

 

[Jameshow]

You can use a hand saw and a plane, preferably a scub plane and a finishing plane.

As for table saw and PT I'd buy something cast iron if you can esp the table saw. Itech or axi perhaps.

Also don't forget dust extraction which they both need and not a vacuum cleaner.

Cheers James

 

[Jacob]

I had a cheap combi for years and it did masses of work. Still going well when I sold it and moved up market. It was very good value for money:
AEG Maxi 26, also appears with other badges Lurem or Record etc. They turn up every now and then £500 - £1000 ish
This one is gone but is a good example:
https://picclick.co.uk/Lurem-Maxi-26-Combination-Universal-Saw-Planer-Spindle-273698715964.html

 

[msparker]

If you're open to do more with hand tools and just want the power tools to speed things up / remove the worst tasks another school of thought would be to:
- Get a band saw for long rip cuts (plus more versatile as it can do curves etc.)
- Get a good thicknesser. Planing one side by hand isn't that hard

Perhaps this route would be a bit cheaper allowing for better quality

+1 to allowing for chip collection. Thicknessing creates a huuuge volume of chips super fast, shop vacs can't hack it.

 

[clogs]

plenty of used machines out there when people trade up.....
don't waste ur money on new.....
at least u can try before u buy......
a band saw is very nice but think I'd be getting a table saw first.....thats what I did....

 

[xraymtb]

Bandsaw and thicknesser would be my suggestion. Flattening a face or edge by hand isnt hard - getting the other side perfectly parallel is! As for the bandsaw, long rip cuts are unpleasant at best and I'll not mention resawing by hand!!

 

[Lazurus]

As stated go pre loved - much better value and quality in the old cast iron machines

 

[PeteHB]

I recently had to reduce some 35mm thick rough sawn boards of beech down to 21mm for the frames of doors for some fitted wardrobes. Despite having a table saw I quickly went to my Festool track saw fitted with a ripping blade. Once the boards were cut with a good clean straight edge and I maximised the width available from each board I went to work with my Scheppach HMS 860 which just about coped with 2M long boards with some help in handling them. It's not the best machine in the world definitely built down to a price but it has stood up to quite a bit of work, I bought it when I needed a planer thicknesser and couldn't find a decent one in France or a second hand one, that plus my workshop is quite small made me buy the Scheppach If I had the space I would buy a better one probably from the Axminster range.
It's labour intensive reducing 15 2M * 35mm twisted boards down to 21mm thickness and straight ones.

 

[billw]

Christ almighty everyone's got a massive TS fetish on this site. Depending on the size of stuff you're making you can prep rough stock using a bandsaw and a PT, which takes up a lot less room and is more useful IMHO.

p.s. TS = table saw, not transsexual btw. Just in case you were wondering.

 

[Jacob]

Christ almighty everyone's got a massive TS fetish on this site. Depending on the size of stuff you're making you can prep rough stock using a bandsaw and a PT, which takes up a lot less room and is more useful IMHO.

p.s. TS = table saw, not transsexual btw. Just in case you were wondering.

Dunno band saw not good for a lot of ripping as they blunt quickly and cut less straight. TS vastly superior!
If you have a bandsaw it helps with wider stuff if you start it off with deep kerfs in both edges from the TS. The bandsaw then just takes out the middle. If you haven't got a bandsaw a hand rip saw does it fairly easily if already kerfed from the TS

 

[billw]

Dunno band saw not good for a lot of ripping as they blunt quickly and cut less straight. TS vastly superior!
If you have a bandsaw it helps with wider stuff if you start it off with deep kerfs in both edges from the TS. The bandsaw then just takes out the middle. If you haven't got a bandsaw a hand rip saw does it fairly easily if already kerfed from the TS

OK I am not going to dispute the superiority of a table saw BUT I think for *many* hobbyists, they aren't ripping 50 planks a week and the small volume of relatively small boards can indeed be done on a bandsaw.

So that was my point - I suspect many people can genuinely get round not having a table saw without it becoming a nuisance.

 

[Ozzie36]

So I’m genuinely dead impressed by all the comments and guidance. Looks like I came to the right place! Thank you!

To come back with some more questions: i think I’m comfortable with going for the table saw over the bandsaw. Hunting around for what I think will be decent enough to get me going; I’ve come up with the metabo TKHS315C. From what I can tell it looks ok for a lower end machine. What are you thoughts?

I would love to go for an old cast iron table but unfortunately my job means that I generally have to move house every 3 years or so. Rebuilding my workshop every time is frustrating enough without having to worry about lugging half tonne machines with me!!

 

[eribaMotters]

A bandsaw is a more flexible machine, but if doing joinery or cabinet work I think a circular saw table is best.
A cast iron table does not mean the machine cannot be moved. I started teaching at a school in 1984 where they had a 2nd hand Startrite and this seemed the standard school spec. Some years later I bought one and I'm guessing it must now be about 50yrs old and has served me well. I made up a castor base for it and can move it around the workshop easily. These do still come up for sale and are wort looking out.
Along with a 10 x 7 planer thicknesser such as Record, Elektra, DeWalt etc you should be able to come in on budget. A decent bag extractor that you will need will tip you over your budget though.

Colin

 

[Sean33]

Hello all,

I’ve been woodworking for a little while now and have completed a fair few projects that I’m quite pleased with. All of which have been with pre planed European oak from Ron Currie in Mansfield. I’ve had no issues with the timber but I’m starting to get fed up with the extortionate cost of paying someone to mill timber for me.

So I’m taking the plunge into rough sawn timber for the first time. My issue is that I don’t have the machinery to do it. I know I need a table saw and a planer thicknesser but I’m struggling on exactly what to get. I’ve been researching hard but I’m currently coming up stumps and hence I’ve come here for help

I am a big advocate of ‘buy nice or buy twice’ but at the same time I can’t really afford to drop 5 grand on proper decent stuff.

My budget is about a grand in total for the two. Could I please have your recommendations? Any help would be greatly appreciated indeed!

Thanks in advance, Ozzie.

Hi Ozzie,
Not saying its the right way but i would go bandsaw, PT and you will want an extractor if budget allows. Not sure if you have a router but if you have can always make a sled to flatten, time consuming and messy without extraction but will do the job and then square with a hand plane and re saw with the bandsaw and again finish with a plane.

 

[NickDReed]

p.s. TS = table saw, not transsexual btw. Just in case you were wondering.

I'm in the wrong place clearly

 

[Jacob]

So I’m genuinely dead impressed by all the comments and guidance. Looks like I came to the right place! Thank you!

To come back with some more questions: i think I’m comfortable with going for the table saw over the bandsaw. Hunting around for what I think will be decent enough to get me going; I’ve come up with the metabo TKHS315C. From what I can tell it looks ok for a lower end machine. What are you thoughts?

I would love to go for an old cast iron table but unfortunately my job means that I generally have to move house every 3 years or so. Rebuilding my workshop every time is frustrating enough without having to worry about lugging half tonne machines with me!!

Looks OK except doesn't have a sliding table These are extremely useful, in fact essential I think.
Don't worry about steel construction they can be perfectly OK.
Band saw is generally useful but limited in many ways - mainly throat size - and if used a lot costs a lot in blades - not resharpenable. The one thing they are very good for is tenons, but only with newish blades on a big machine. Instead you need to get into hand sawn tenons cheeks - the shoulders can be done very accurately with a TS. Avoid the gadget/dowel/domino route which produce not so good joints, expensively and slowly.

 

[Jameshow]

Toy can by a sliding table attachment for the metebo...

Cheers James

 

[kevinlightfoot]

Hi Ozzie,are you located in Mansfield or just getting your timber from there?If you are I’m also in Mansfield and Ron Curreys is not really the place to go,too expensive and not the quality you should be looking for as a serious woodworker.I see from your profile you may be in Staffordshire,if so why travel to Notts you have Hymor Timber on your doorstep,much better choice and they have a machining service if needed.I travel back to Stoke and load up two or three times a year and buy rough sawn to machine myself.You can get a lot of machining done for the price of a capable set up to do your own .Don’t underestimate the quality of machines you require to machine timber properly without the frustration of poor quality set up.

 

[Jelly]

a band saw is very nice but think I'd be getting a table saw first.....thats what I did....

Dunno band saw not good for a lot of ripping as they blunt quickly and cut less straight. TS vastly superior!
If you have a bandsaw it helps with wider stuff if you start it off with deep kerfs in both edges from the TS. The bandsaw then just takes out the middle. If you haven't got a bandsaw a hand rip saw does it fairly easily if already kerfed from the TS

The thing I've always found with ripping on a bandsaw is you need size and rigidity, if you can tension a ¾" or wider blade, with a coarse toothing they will do a good job; otherwise it's all a bit wiggly.

Issue is that's going to be a big machine aimed at more of the commercial market.

There are a couple of big modern pressed steel bandsaws which are up to the job, but they're probably out of OP's price range new, so it would then be looking at second hand where smaller Wadkin or Robinson saws might fit the bill, where there's a serious amount of weight involved.

Oh, and with big bandwheels you need lots of overhead height, along with storage space for blades of several different tooth and bandwidth options, plus blunt blades waiting to go to the saw-doctor (even at 3/4" they can get expensive enough to justify sharpening, especially TCT ones)

Given unlimited space, and the ability to shift a large machine I'd personally prefer a bandsaw for ripping, but there's good reason that even many commercial joiners shops don't bother.

 

[hugov]

I am by no means an expert, in fact still very much a beginner, but for what it's worth I've been using a Makita 2012NB lunchbox thicknesser (~£400) and have been getting very good results. The rough sawn timber (ash and oak) I've been starting with has all been fairly straight and twist-free so maybe I've just been lucky. My technique is:

1) start with rough sawn timber at least about 3-4mm thicker than the finished dimension. Run the rough sawn through the thicknesser alternating each side, taking off about 0.5mm each pass. Make sure you identify which way the grain is going and feed the right direction to avoid tear-out. No hand planing or anything else to get one reference surface first, I've found that alternating each side and taking 6-8 passes has produced dead flat and parallel surfaces for me. I do the boards one by one from rough, adjusting the thicknesser each time, until I'm about 0.5mm over final thickness, then adjust the thicknesser to final thickness and run all the boards through – otherwise I get small (~0.2-0.4mm) thickness variations.

2) Straighten one reference edge using a track saw (I'm using a TS55 with a Festool 18T rip blade). Depending on how clean the cut is, I tidy it up with an electric planer (Bosch GHO 12V "mini" planer, absolutely love this thing!) or a low angle block plane. That edge is now ready for glue.

3) Make a parallel edge using a table saw (I'm using a Bosch GTS10J, ~£400). I bought this saw for this task and it works fine but I think if I was starting over I might just use the track saw with some parallel guides like this: Parallel Guide rail 700+ that fits Makita, festool guide rail track | eBay. Again, clean up the edges if necessary – I find using the table saw I get cuts less clean than the track saw, especially for long boards, probably due to inadequate infeed and outfeed support (I've just been using one of those generic cheap roller stands from eBay, £20).

4) Glue up the panels. Trim ends square again using the track saw with a track square (TSO GRS-16). Sand smooth. Done!

I'm using a generic drum type extractor (£67 on special from Rutlands) with a 2.5" hose for extracting the thicknesser, and a regular shopvac for the tracksaw, tablesaw, and sander.