Starship enterprise plane.

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Does anyone know what on earth this plane us for?

It is on the old tools website, thought to be made of cherry, and has a Peugeot Freres iron. But what on earth are the appendages for? I've not seen anything like it.

Mike.

 

[NickN]

Deleted - irrelevant ramblings.

 

[AndyT]

They are handles, in a mainland European tradition. Does it have a complex sole which would need a lot of effort?

If I can find it, there's a French site which might have something similar which has been discussed here before.

 

[woodbrains]

They are handles, in a mainland European tradition. Does it have a complex sole which would need a lot of effort?

If I can find it, there's a French site which might have something similar which has been discussed here before.

Hello,

The sole is flat and the iron cambered a bit, but just a regular looking double iron. There has been a repair patch let in, in front of the mouth, but there is no wear to the sole to suggest it has been used on narrow end grain, as in shooting. I thought it might be a moulding plane that required an apprentice to pull from the front, whilst the craftsman guided it from behind, but no, the sole is flat.

I suppose the sole could have been a complex mould, wrecked beyond redemption, then made flat and the mouth necessarily patched, when the mouth gaped from having a lot of sole removed. I should have thought there would be a skew to the bed, though, if this was a moulder.

Mike.

 

[AndyT]

The site I was thinking of is http://www.forum-outils-anciens.com/index.php - it's well worth a browse around, just to look at the pictures of what look to us like wacky variant designs.
The bit I was remembering was supplementary documentation to a big picture book on "Les Rabots" here http://www.forum-outils-anciens.com/t11 ... ntaire.htm - but the links which used to lead to some Google documents and shared albums of photos have disappeared since we discussed them in 2010 on the back of some French moulding planes I bought - french-moulding-planes-t39638.html

According to Whelan's book on the Wooden Plane, that style of side grips was common in nineteenth century and earlier French and German planes.

 

[worn thumbs]

I have read tales of some heavy duty planing in the pre-machine age being done by two people.The boy was supposed to have used a rope to assist with moving the plane,while the experienced tradesman pressed down and guided the plane.Those horns at the front would be a good place to attach a rope.

 

[bugbear]

The front cross piece is deffo for a rope. Why the plane needed a second person I have no idea...

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

The crossbar is "just" a handle.
This Chinese video has a few seconds of a plane with a crossbar (but no side grips) at about 30 seconds in, being used by one man.

https://youtu.be/6HFZEwn-nKY

And some more at 5.45 and after 6 minutes.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have no idea what it would be used for, however it looks set up for a team of two. The front cross handle is for pulling, and the rear set of handles could be held in each hand, so that either down force is exerted (cannot see why) or, more likely, the plane can be guided or steered more precisely from the rear.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Just4Fun]

This Chinese video has a few seconds of a plane with a crossbar (but no side grips) at about 30 seconds in, being used by one man.

This youtube video series on making a Chinese plane has the crossbar handles near the iron, not at the front. I also recall a youtube video of a younger Chinese guy making a plane that had crossbar handles at the front, but didn't save a link to that one.

 

[bugbear]

http://davidbarronfurniture.blogspot.co ... plane.html

BugBear

 

[woodbrains]

http://davidbarronfurniture.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/monster-moulding-plane.html

BugBear

Hello,

I've seen wide, complex moulders with a rope through a hole before. But this plane isn't (at least not currently) a moulder, neither is it particularly wide. I speculated that the plane might have been once a moulder, but had the sole flattened, but there is no skew on the bed like the one in your link.

Another thought I had, it has been patched at the mouth; could the patch be closing a very wide mouth of a plane designed for a very thick shaving? Are there trades that use thick shavings, such as baskets?

Mike.

 

[bugbear]

http://davidbarronfurniture.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/monster-moulding-plane.html

BugBear

Hello,

I've seen wide, complex moulders with a rope through a hole before. But this plane isn't (at least not currently) a moulder, neither is it particularly wide. I speculated that the plane might have been once a moulder, but had the sole flattened, but there is no skew on the bed like the one in your link.

Another thought I had, it has been patched at the mouth; could the patch be closing a very wide mouth of a plane designed for a very thick shaving? Are there trades that use thick shavings, such as baskets?

Mike.

In answer to your last question - yes. They're called spelk planes.

There are a very small number of planes where the shaving is the product, not the piece of timber. I only know of three - spelk planes (for baskets) spill planes (for spills :wink: ), and the Japanese use wide thin shavings for wrapping. I don't know the name for these planes.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

I'm pretty sure this is not a modified plane and was not intended to be pulled by a rope.

Here's the relevant image from John Whelan, confirming that this used to be a standard pattern of plane in some countries, with side grips and a transverse grip on the same plane:

Although the plane in this famous video of chairmaking in Sweden shows a plane with transverse grips at either end, it does give a reason why some planes were made with two sets of handles. I think this plane may have been used in the same way.

Just the planing https://youtu.be/wGDkliy1DEU?t=9m44s
Whole video https://youtu.be/wGDkliy1DEU

 

[AndyT]

A few more bookmarks explored... the key words to search for are "Rabot galère" and the defining characteristic is that they were for "quatre mains." Seems to be from the Alps.

Here are a few more:

http://www.folkcollection.com/spip.php?article217

http://www.aspir-pontderoide.fr/matos/rabot-galere/

http://www.forum-outils-anciens.com/t37 ... m?start=30

And it's just about visible if you zoom in on the preview pages of this book I mentioned earlier http://www.editionsvial.com/boutique/outils/les-rabots/ - fourth image, bottom right.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Thanks for posting these fantastic videos. I never saw 2 man planing before, for stock preparation, very interesting.

Mike.

 

[AndyT]

Hello,

Thanks for posting these fantastic videos. I never saw 2 man planing before, for stock preparation, very interesting.

Mike.

Those three little films are one of the best things I know on YouTube. There is so much information captured there on a few sunny afternoons, about efficient handwork, with tools suited to the material, used with a high level of skill and experience to get the job done.

 

[nabs]

thanks Andy - the plane in the video seems like the obvious design for two person planing,

The two Swedish chaps are obviously very familiar with the task, but the process does not seem different from single person planing (more vigorous,, of course) and the only difference between the roles of the two people is the chap at the back is in charge of lifting the rear of the plane at the end of the stroke (to help flick out the shaving?)

- I wonder what advantage there would be in having the two rear handles parallel to the body of the plane?

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Given the tradition of two man saws, it is not so surprising I think.

I guess the two rear handles allow the plane to be used by one operator for lighter jobs ?

I enjoyed the longer video of Swedish craft. They were not hanging about ! The dipping the tenons in the glue pot to assemble the chair was an interesting method. Mortice chopping on a low bench whilst sitting on the work too. Even if he was doing it all wrong :wink:

The clogmaking really caught my eye. On the tools for self reliance stall at the Bodger's ball there was a cardboard box of strange tools - they were exactly the ones in the video; the large spoon bits, and the two big hooked knives. Now I know what they were for !

 

[AndyT]

I've managed to find another snippet about the use of the "rabot galere". I linked earlier to a big pictorial study of French planes. That book is out of print, but its publishers do have another book available, on woodworking tools and machinery. Its cover has a galere plane, decoratively carved. But what's more useful is that one of the previewable pages has more pictures and a little bit of text. This is it:

(from http://www.editionsvial.com/boutique/ou ... du-bois-2/ )

The words describe the construction and go on to say that the "four-handed" version was used exclusively by carpenters (as distinct from furniture makers or joiners) to work on beams.

So maybe the point of the design is just the sheer amount of work involved in planing the surface of a big heavy beam in a timber framed building - a job made possible by sharing the effort with an assistant.

And picking up on Tony's point about sharing the work, I need no more excuse to bring another wonderful archive film to everyone's attention who might have missed it first time round - it starts with a wonderful example of marital bliss in woodworking:

post1118872.html