Stanley Yoke material

[tibi]

Hello,

I have Stanley no.6 Type 9 and Stanley no.4 type 11, where I purchased Hock blades and cap irons earlier this year. As both blade and cap iron is thicker than the original, the yoke is too short (it is worse on no.6 where it barely touches the cap iron).

I would like to ask a welder to weld me a little material on the tip of the yoke and then I will grind it to fit the hole in the cap iron.

Can you please tell me if the Stanley yoke is made of steel or cast iron? If it is steel, it can be MIG welded, if it is cast iron then I would need a special stick for cast iron welding.

I could buy brass replacement yokes for Juuma planes from fine-tools.com, but I do not know if they would fit the old Stanley planes

Thank you.

 

[Ttrees]

Looks cheaper than getting a vintage yoke to me.
Seems you could buy a steel one if you wanted either, that could be welded.
This recent thread might be of interest, which I guess you've seen already.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...g-assembly-to-clifton-no-5-hand-plane.139850/

 

[D_W]

Just glue or pein tabs onto the hock cap iron that fit in the iron slot so that the original yoke can reach them. Doesn't have to be full thickness of the iron and the cap irons are unhardened, so drilling them to install something to pein won't be a big deal.

I don't do much gluing metal, but some of the epoxy designed for metal (jbweld?) may also work. all but the later yokes that I've seen - of stanley type are cast. Buy they could be cast steel for all we know.

 

[tibi]

Looks cheaper than getting a vintage yoke to me.
Seems you could buy a steel one if you wanted either, that could be welded.
This recent thread might be of interest, which I guess you've seen already.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...g-assembly-to-clifton-no-5-hand-plane.139850/

Thank you Tom,

I have seen it, but it says that Juuma yoke fits Clifton plane, not Stanley. Steel yoke is unavailable for as long as I check the site for it (few months maybe).

 

[tibi]

Just glue or pein tabs onto the hock cap iron that fit in the iron slot so that the original yoke can reach them. Doesn't have to be full thickness of the iron and the cap irons are unhardened, so drilling them to install something to pein won't be a big deal.

I don't do much gluing metal, but some of the epoxy designed for metal (jbweld?) may also work. all but the later yokes that I've seen - of stanley type are cast. Buy they could be cast steel for all we know.

Thanks David,

I do not want to glue anything to the cap iron, because from time to time I need to dress the underside of the cap iron (due to a nick or it stops mating well with the iron), so I do not want to prevent anything from being able to polish the bottom of the cap iron.

JBWeld costs around 25 Euros and I would have nothing else to use it for. I can get it welded in a nearby company with any method for free.

I have no options to examine the carbon content in the yoke (or do some other grinding tests that will tell me the material based on the color of the sparks from grinding, so that is why I am asking).

 

[Ttrees]

Just glue or pein tabs onto the hock cap iron that fit in the iron slot so that the original yoke can reach them. Doesn't have to be full thickness of the iron and the cap irons are unhardened, so drilling them to install something to pein won't be a big deal.

Never thought about simply piening the tabs,
Cosman's IBC (a thicker iron than most IIRC) blades uses those tabs,
but tapped instead.
Never really looked at those, but your comment made me question which method I'd prefer haha

 

[D_W]

Never thought about simply piening the tabs,
Cosman's IBC (a thicker iron than most IIRC) blades uses those tabs,
but tapped instead.
Never really looked at those, but your comment made me question which method I'd prefer haha

if you have any scrap steel or brass laying around, you can temporarily glue it to whatever you're peining, drill a hole through and pein really easily. It'll never let go adjusting and probably could be done without much experience in less than half an hour. For someone who has done it a few times, it's a job of minutes.

tacking tabs in place quickly with CA before doing anything is probably a good way to check that location will work, or it can be built tight and then filed back.

 

[tibi]

Never thought about simply piening the tabs,
Cosman's IBC (a thicker iron than most IIRC) blades uses those tabs,
but tapped instead.
Never really looked at those, but your comment made me question which method I'd prefer haha

Can you please give me some pictures how pien the tabs look like? I cannot find anything on google (besides a lot of sheet music for guitar)

 

[D_W]

Thanks David,

I do not want to glue anything to the cap iron, because from time to time I need to dress the underside of the cap iron (due to a nick or it stops mating well with the iron), so I do not want to prevent anything from being able to polish the bottom of the cap iron.

JBWeld costs around 25 Euros and I would have nothing else to use it for. I can get it welded in a nearby company with any method for free.

I have no options to examine the carbon content in the yoke (or do some other grinding tests that will tell me the material based on the color of the sparks from grinding, so that is why I am asking).

All you need for peining is a thin piece of mild steel rod or brass. I wouldn't personally use the glue for anything other than holding in place temporarily.

Tabs up at the slot won't have any effect on dressing the front edge of the cap iron. You won't want to polish the whole underside of one of those caps or you'll just dub the front edge proud. I was never a big fan of that design, but they will function. Less is more with maintenance since there's no hump to work with if you need to refresh the front edge. Hock and others make them like that because they can just be milled from flat stock instead of stamping.

 

[Ttrees]

Here's the IBC pinnacle double iron
Not sure which I'd prefer, as I hate little screws which get loose,lost, and are likely
not too common to find.
Having lost a little screw recently for my vernier calipers, really annoying, and no old laptop I had nor anything else fitted so had to pien a hardened screw somewhat,
and do it properly with some suitable material when the other screw gets lost.

 

[D_W]

by tabs, I mean perhaps taking two pieces of steel in squares, both less wide than the iron slot with enough reduction in width to allow some lateral movement of the cap so that it can be set.

Off of the top of my head, I can't remember the typical slot width, it's usually either around .455 or .555, don't recall. The former rings a bell (close to a motor size - .454). But figure maybe you have a slot that's 0.4" wide, or about 1 cm, and about the same length. You tack it in place with CA glue or something, not much, or market it and the cap separately and accurately and drill them (easier to do if making a tab off of a small bar of material 1 cm wide and then cutting the tabs loose, then test fit without peining wire the same diameter as the holes you drilled to make sure they're in the right place. If they are, cut the wire just proud of the top and bottom and pein the whole thing tight by hammering both sides alternating against a hard surface (vise or anvil) and then file off the excess.

 

[D_W]

Here's the IBC pinnacle double iron
Not sure which I'd prefer, as I hate little screws which get loose,lost, and are likely
not too common to find.
Having lost a little screw recently for my vernier calipers, really annoying, and no old laptop I had nor anything else fitted so had to pien a hardened screw somewhat,
and do it properly with some suitable material when the other screw gets lost.

Something similar to that. i'd make the tabs slightly bigger so they're easier to work with. Peining will look flush on the top of the cap iron and far less garish than those fasteners.

 

[D_W]

I kind of wonder if cosman learned that off of forums as peining on tabs was something I remember from very early - like 2006 early when I first started and people complained about backlash with boutique irons.

I no longer have boutique irons, though, and no planes left where that modification was done. I did have two caps for my last (now gone) remaining LN smoother - the problem is opposite. The plane works fine with thinner irons if you grind out some of the cap iron slot so that it can go a little further down the yoke. But those have to be ground - the cap irons are soft, but the slot will destroy files. Not sure if it work hardens due to cutting or punching or what, but they are really hard at the surface of the slots.

 

[tibi]

All you need for peining is a thin piece of mild steel rod or brass. I wouldn't personally use the glue for anything other than holding in place temporarily.

Tabs up at the slot won't have any effect on dressing the front edge of the cap iron. You won't want to polish the whole underside of one of those caps or you'll just dub the front edge proud. I was never a big fan of that design, but they will function. Less is more with maintenance since there's no hump to work with if you need to refresh the front edge. Hock and others make them like that because they can just be milled from flat stock instead of stamping.

Thanks David, I have found a video on it, could be one of the alternatives.

 

[D_W]

Thanks David, I have found a video on it, could be one of the alternatives.

it's basically a pre-screw and still common fastening method that is "permanent" but not as permanent as people make it out to be. It's something that everyone (maker or diy type - if someone is hands off, then obviously not every single person) should get the hang of as a general life skill, on par with changing the connector on a fraying power tool cord.

A lot of scissors now are fasteners, too, but I preferred older ones with peined connectors. When they get loose, you tap the peined connection they stay tight a lot longer than connectors that constantly come loose.

Obviously also common in pocket knife production, though done in machines and probably has been for a very long time in lower cost knives.

should be harmless in unhardened cap irons no matter what you use, too. a little bit of brass rod would be plenty strong for this, but any annealed mild steel rod or wire would also do. it doesn't need to be perfect and no tapering of holes needs to be done. Just whack it.

 

[Ttrees]

I'd say some welding rod might do the trick, although I've never tried.
The most difficult part using any sorta rod, is getting a mushroom/wider profile on one side as to sit into a countersink.

I have done this with a machine badge, using soft galvanized nails, perhaps for roof slates. (ones which can be cut with a good pliers, some cannot)
and my sledgehammer for an anvil, over a bench leg.

Cut the nail short, and place the head on the "anvil" so you can strike it on the cut end to widen it, then cut the head off and insert into the hole and hammer from both sides.
Once you do this, you'll be looking for excuses to do more.

Also done a scissors, very satisfying quick fix, although I did go a bit much on the piening/peining/peening? and made it a bit stiff.

Without the head, one would be thankful of having a block with a hole drilled to get the rod started from one side, say a large nut or bolt head would be cheap way to get thick stock without needing to buy plate.
Great for woodruff keys for instance.

I'd think about keeping the plates from moving with a spacer, which also might take some head scratching.

 

[D_W]

brazing rod is fine. i don't weld, so I don't know what the welding rod is made of.



These mules (blades and handles not fully finished cosmetically) are pinned with brazing rod after sanding off the coating that comes on them.

I thought this was smart given the availability and the first person i mentioned it to said "everyone does that - they even do it on forged in fire".

Ouch.

it's about 1/8th, so kind of chunky for this. If the hole is relatively large, it should be far enough away from the slot so that it can just be peined lightly. Peining is kind of like driving a wedge into something. If you try to pein a slotted iron closed with brass, you can crack the iron pretty easily if it's hardened end to end.

For the purpose of creating these tabs, if they're 1x1cm, enough relief could be had from the edges, and the peining kept light. it can always be redone.

 

[Ttrees]

I was thinking they might be too soft, as it's easier than a roofing nail to cut with a pliers, although admittedly I only ever needed to cut damp thin rods which stick to the work, not tried say a 2.5 or 3.2 rod to compare to a soft steel galvanised nail.

I've seen those rods used for hinges, so it must be half decent.

 

[D_W]

I was thinking they might be too soft, as it's easier than a roofing nail to cut with a pliers, although admittedly I only ever needed to cut damp thin rods which stick to the work, not tried say a 2.5 or 3.2 rod to compare to a soft steel galvanised nail.

I've seen those rods used for hinges, so it must be half decent.

I have no clue what they are, at least mine. whatever it is, they're not soft like annealed 260 cartridge brass or anything.

They'd be great for this purpose, but even better if they were something like .08.

I can guarantee if I sat down to put tabs on a cap iron and I only had the brazing rods (which I keep both for brazing and also for pins on knife handles), the larger size wouldn't bother me.

Except you made a good point. if little soft finish nails are available, they'd also be great.

 

[spanner48]

Why not try a different route: fabricating a longer yoke? Yes, the quality planes have cast or forged yokes. But the "more economical' ones have two bent pieces of [I think] 2mm mild steel, drilled through for the pivot pin and tacked together at the top. That's makeable.