Stanley Bailey #5 Spring Cap

[Steve Milne]

I’m having an issue setting up my Stanley Bailey #5 plane. It is a modern plane, probably from around 2000 or so. It has had no ‘fettling’ done on it.

I am no expert and am just getting back into woodworking after a lengthy hiatus. So it could be something daft that I am doing. But I have been on the old You Tube and am reasonably confident that I am putting it together correctly.

The issue is that the spring cap keeps popping off! I assemble it as I believe I should. The screw sits nicely into the little ‘teardrop’ slot. And it is tightened down so that it snaps solidly into place and I can advance the blade. When I advance the blade it all works as it should. However, when I retract it, the spring cap moves a mm or so upwards (so that the screw is no longer tightly seated in the teardrop slot. After 3 or 4 advance/retracts the spring cap just pops off.

As a comlete beginner I have no idea why it is doing this and therefore I have no idea what I need to do to fix it.

Thanks n anticipation of your assistance.

 

[AndyT]

Possible that you just need a fraction of a turn more on the mounting screw. If that would make it to hard to flip the lever, put a couple of drops of oil on the flip cam mechanism. (I always do that anyway.)

If still no joy, look closely at how the screw sits into the cutout - maybe a little extra countersinking would make it better.

 

[Steve Milne]

Thanks, Andy. I’ve tried various tensions, but to no avail. I don’t see any countersinking, as such, in the spring blade. Indeed, the ‘squeeze’ is such that it seems destined to want to push the spring blade off in the direction I am seeing.

 

[AndyT]

I've now been and looked at a few planes. On the Stanleys, the top surface of the lever cap is flat, not countersunk. (Other makes vary.)
What matters is that the underside of the screw is conical - like a countersunk woodscrew is - and slightly smaller than the round part of the keyhole. So as you tighten the screw it pulls neatly towards the centre of the hole, even though it's open at the bottom.
Maybe this subtlety has been forgotten on your plane?

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Perhaps the screw is a replacement from a different make of plane. Or some other part is not original ?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That was my thought.

 

[Steve Milne]

I’ve just checked. It is a dome head screw and it does have a slight countersink on it. The plane was given to me as a gift many years ago. It was new in its box. I’m ashamed to say that this is the first time I’ve had a proper look at it....

 

[Sheffield Tony]

It doesn't have the word "Handyman" on it anywhere does it ?

 

[Steve Milne]

I don’t see ‘Handyman’ anywhere on the plane or on the box. The front end says ‘MADE IN ENGLAND’ ... ‘BAILEY’. The back end says ‘No 5’ ... ‘612-005’ (it is possible that the ‘6’ could be a ‘G’. The box has the number ‘12-005’ on it and the dimensions of 355 x 50 mm.

I have noticed that moving the lateral adjustment lever a few times will cause the spring cap to pop off even quicker than the winding back and forth routine. The other interesting thing I noticed was that I set the screw adjustment so that it was just right (as far as I could tell). And then sometimes when I try to put the cap back on it is way too tight. Does this suggest that my plane might be badly machined?

EDIT: Oh, and the front knob and handle are made out of some sort of plastic/resin.

 

[ED65]

I've had a plane with various of the issues you describe before (a no. 4, not a 5) and for the life of me I can't remember what sorted it out but I did eventually get it to work as it should. One thing that may be a factor is the position of the cap iron, it's not quite a bit back from the edge is it? I think if it's set a long way back it can contribute to the cap iron popping free but I can't remember for sure as it's been a few years since any of my planes didn't have the cap iron well forwards.

Another thing to check up on is whether the irons, frog face and the underside of the lever cap aren't overly lubricated; there should be no obviously oily/greasy feeling, if there is things can slide around more than they should.

The approximate age of your plane may be a factor here, which relates to the handle type.

EDIT: Oh, and the front knob and handle are made out of some sort of plastic/resin.

If it's the jet-black plastic (usually with a prominent mould line) that's a bit pants so you might want to upgrade at some point. And unfortunately this is also on planes of the most modern type, which are the least good.

If it's the speckledy brownish resin that looks a bit like wood from a distance you're in luck as those are excellent, in fact best handles going IMO.... Although these too are junk in the opinion of those for whom anything but wooden handles is the work of the devil Anyway that aside, the planes these are fitted to are older and generally better all round than those of more recent manufacture.

 

[Steve Milne]

Thanks everyone for these replies. I don't think my cap iron is too far back - I have set it to a little less than 1/8" by eye. My resin handles are brown (I think).

Interesting about the oil. In fact mine are not oiled and I wondered if that might be the issue. If you're moving the blade/cap iron assembly with the adjustment wheel (or the lateral adjustment lever, for that matter) is it not the case that the blade/cap iron assembly must slip around between the frog and spring top blade? If they did not, then surely the assembly will carry the spring top around with it (which might explain why it happens when winding the blade back and not forwards).

But I am clueless on these things, so please excuse my ignorance.

 

[Dovetaildave]

Hi Steve,
Welcome and hope we can help you.
I'm guessing its the frog position, but maybe worth checking other variables as well.

You say; "But I have been on the old You Tube and am reasonably confident that I am putting it together correctly".
lets just make sure we can be more than "reasonably" confident its set up correctly as Paul does it so well.

1, Is the frog securely screwed to the body,and just nearly touching the mouth, without any movement at all?

2, When you turn the adjuster wheel, does the frog adjuster move forwards and backwards freely?

3, Does the lateral adjuster lever, lean left and right properly, more to the point, does the other end with the wheel, just stand proud of the frog by about 2mm? (the thickness of the blade/"iron").

4, Does the blade, lay flat on the frog with lateral adj wheel in the slot, and swing when laterally levered?

In this video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyV6IUpsYk&t=2878s

Paul reassembles at 58.29 from bolt onwards.
He points with his pencil to the step/distance of frog and mouth, adjusts to almost flush.

5, Have you set yours the same?

If it still isn't working as it should, maybe you can post a photo or two?

Regards,
Dave

 

[Steve Milne]

Thank you again for replying. I've re-examined the plane and taken some pictures.

Questions:

1, Is the frog securely screwed to the body,and just nearly touching the mouth, without any movement at all?

As far as I can tell it is. If I completely remove the frog and set it in the plane body without screwing it in, then I can slide it back and forth, but it does not seem very smooth. When the screws are tightened down, it is solid. However, it seems to want to twist such that it is not parallel with the mouth of the plane. I have to hold it in place and be careful about tightening down the screws to get it to seat parallel (by eye). Please see photo below for where I have set mine.

2, When you turn the adjuster wheel, does the frog adjuster move forwards and backwards freely?

Again, it appears to - it does not feel as smooth as I would like, but I don't know what 'normal' should feel like.

3, Does the lateral adjuster lever, lean left and right properly, more to the point, does the other end with the wheel, just stand proud of the frog by about 2mm? (the thickness of the blade/"iron").

As you can see from the photo it is less a wheel and more a plate. It does sit a little proud of the frog. Similar to my comments about the frog adjustment, the lever is not buttery smooth, but it does move the blade of the plane as it should.

4, Does the blade, lay flat on the frog with lateral adj wheel in the slot, and swing when laterally levered?

Yes.

I attach some photos. Firstly the problem, itself. This photo shows the shift in the spring cap following a few moves of the lateral adjustment lever. At the point shown on the right, the spring cap is now loose and can be easily detached:

The lever itself is a little cheap looking. The metal is thin and I think I could bend it without too much effort:

I adjusted the frog so that it would be in this position:

The underside of the frog:

The frog attachment:

The cap:

Final view:

I hope this helps and once again thanks everyone for their input in this. Much appreciated.

[EDIT: Apologies for original issue with photos. I am new to teh forum and wasn't entirely clear how to attach them. I think it's fixed now.]

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'd be happy to look at it for you ............. but I think a 700 mile round trip is a bit too far.
There must be someone here who could look at it for you, I'd have thought.

 

[Steve Milne]

Thanks, but, as you say, 700 miles is a bit of a hike. The petrol cost alone would probably pay for a Lie-Nielsen :shock:

 

[Ttrees]

Hello, just a thought but could the heel of your bevel be hitting off the casting, how steep is the bevel on your cutter?

I am thinking the iron is not bedding down fully on the frog, at the buisness end.
It looks possibly like the bed of the frog could be filed at an angle so the iron wont foul it...
I cant see how much clearence you've got in the pic though so that might not be a good idea
Can you lay a ruler on the frog when assembled, without it bumping into the back of the mouth of your plane body?

Before anything, grinding a more acute primary bevel on your iron might just fix it for you.

Tom

 

[Steve Milne]

With the way it is set, I can slide a steel rule down the frog without it bashing into the plane mouth. I can adjust the frog so that the blade will not pass into the mouth. I can also adjust the frog so that the blade will bash into the far jaw!

I am waiting for one or two things to come in the post and then I would be able to regrind the iron.

 

[Ttrees]

It might be worth a shot to do it roughly on a strip of sandpaper clamped to something for the meanwhile and see if it makes a difference
It doesn't need to be pretty or anything.
If you have no way of grinding it furthers my suspicion of too steep of a primary bevel.

Tom

 

[Ttrees]

The other interesting thing I noticed was that I set the screw adjustment so that it was just right (as far as I could tell). And then sometimes when I try to put the cap back on it is way too tight. Does this suggest that my plane might be badly machined?

This can be happen sometimes, and you have to wiggle the iron with your fingers, not the adjuster, for the iron assembly to bed down onto the frog into the adjuster slot, so that the yolk can engage.

And I would favour the cap iron to be closer for roughing work, as it is probably more solid if set a bit further towards the edge.
Tom

 

[Steve Milne]

What angle would you suggest?