Stanley 51/52-alike

[Mr Ed]

Just thinking out loud...

How come no current tool manufacturer is offering a stanley 51/52 repro or a modern take on the tool. Antique examples fetch huge sums and collectors have more or less made this an unobtainable tool.

(see this restoration on Derek Cohens pages if you don't know this tool - http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestor ... 05152.html )

I think it remains as valid a tool today as it ever was and am surprised that neither Tom Lie-Nielsen or Robin Lee has felt inclined to give it a go. Maybe one of them has it in the pipeline....?

Is there a reason why no-one is offering this that I'm missing?

Cheers, Ed

 

[Ironballs]

Ed

I've not come across this type of plane before, having had a read through of that resto and had a look at the plane my assumption would be that this is a fairly specialised plane, with a very precise and relatively complex design that consequently has quite a small market - despite the collector prices.

The design and tooling costs will be quite high and the return through the sales may not make it a profitable proposition

Cheers

Damian

 

[Woodmagnet]

I think it would sell o.k. personally.

 

[Benchwayze]

Ever since I saw Jim Kingshott's version, in 'Making and Modifying Woodwork Tools', I've been praying I'd find one of these under a table at an antique fair, the vendor not knowing what it was!

It would have been nice to have one. (Jim's book proved to be an investment in itself btw!)

I recall that Jim gave the method he used to make his own. To do it, at the least you would need drawings and then you'd have to make or commission patterns for the castings.

I think it would be cheaper than buying a genuine one, or even a repro; which is probably why the likes of LN haven't made a version. Given their exacting standards, it might be too expensive to sell.

I'd break the bank if they did though!

 

[lurker]

Having "played" with one of these I can confirm its a awesome tool.

I believe they sell (albiet rarely come available) for around £3K ??

I doubt anyone could reproduce & make profit for a new one under the £1K mark.

I'll have to stick to my Shoot boards

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

The #51/52 is indeed an amazing tool. It is better than my wooden shooting board plus LA Jack. I have had the thought that one of the Bridge City sawtables and the #51/52 would be the ultimate set.

Will a new verson of the #51/52 come to the market? Yes, eventually. But I will not say from whom.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

Is there a reason why no-one is offering this that I'm missing?

Cheers, Ed

Yes. Too expensive to build, too small a market, too small a functional advantage over a well made wooden shooting board with a "suitable" plane.

The present high price of originals is due to rarity, and is (I believe) collector, not user, driven.

BugBear

 

[lurker]

too small a functional advantage over a well made wooden shooting board with a "suitable" plane.

BugBear

Spot on BB; as usual

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Too expensive to build, too small a market, too small a functional advantage over a well made wooden shooting board with a "suitable" plane.

Hi BB

I am not sure that I can agree with you here. Yes, the market is small and the price will be relatively high. But "relative" is the operative term. Witness the buyers of Briidge City tools. They obviously make a big enough profit to stay in business. At one stage the prices of LN (as the first production "high grade" - another relative term - company) must have appeared daunting to many when they were used to those of Stanley.

The present high price of originals is due to rarity, and is (I believe) collector, not user, driven.

Yes, I tend to agree. However there are some (like myself) that bought one to use. It is a fantastic tool. I could duplicate its use with shopmade tools (and I have, as you know) but sometimes it is just fun to use something really special

Regards from Perth
Derek

 

[bugbear]

Too expensive to build, too small a market, too small a functional advantage over a well made wooden shooting board with a "suitable" plane.

Hi BB

I am not sure that I can agree with you here. Yes, the market is small and the price will be relatively high. But "relative" is the operative term. Witness the buyers of Briidge City tools. They obviously make a big enough profit to stay in business. At one stage the prices of LN (as the first production "high grade" - another relative term - company) must have appeared daunting to many when they were used to those of Stanley.

Agreed - I'd forgotten about Bridge City. That would of course mean that a "new" 51/52 combo would be at (what) 3000-4000 USD.

I think the "hope" expressed in this thread is that a modern 51/52 would be cheaper (and perhaps better) than the rare and valuable originals.

Derek - have you made/used/tried a skewed blade plane with a normal shooting board, perhaps your #51 on your ramped board, or something from HNT?

I suspect the skew advantage of the #51 is a major factor; I keep trying to nudge Philly into a full blown "super shooter"

BugBear

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Y'now BB, I haven't used the #51 on my ramped board! I will do so this weekend and let you know about it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[tnimble]

Yes. Too expensive to build, too small a market, too small a functional advantage over a well made wooden shooting board with a "suitable" plane.

More a matter of to many tools that have a need to be reproduced and to little time and resources to do them all without doing a wrong on quality.

Witness the buyers of Briidge City tools. They obviously make a big enough profit to stay in business. At one stage the prices of LN (as the first production "high grade" - another relative term - company) must have appeared daunting to many when they were used to those of Stanley.

The only reason I've not bougth onbe of their fox tail shoulder planes is because I already have a LN medium shoulder plane (I must amit the mouse has been hovering above the 'add to cart' button). Currently I've only a need for a smaller plne. If the BCT came out earlier I no doubt would have paid the $795 + shipping + taxes

Agreed - I'd forgotten about Bridge City. That would of course mean that a "new" 51/52 combo would be at (what) 3000-4000 USD.

Depending on the maker more in the range of $350 to $1000.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Is there a reason why no-one is offering this that I'm missing?

Hi Ed,

While I imagine that the Stanley shooting board and plane work really well, it is rather limited in what it can do in my view. For example, when shooting 45 degree mitres, you really want a board on which you can plane in both directions if you want to plane each piece of wood from the same side. And there are various situations where you would need to make up a custom shooting board for a particular application.

If you want the ultimate shooting board(s) have a word with Pete (Newt) sometime and see if you can have a go on his. Having tried his, I reckon the ultimate shooting board has to be a shop-made one.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Paul

Don't knock the #51/52 for shooting mitres until you have used one. I have several shooting boards, some with add-on mitre fences and one that is dedicated to picture frame mitres (below).

The #52 is extremely accurate - it uses a preset angle setting - so-much-so that one does not require a double set up.

I have made some mean shooting boards, but the #51/52 is just meaner!
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... ction.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul

Don't knock the #51/52 for shooting mitres until you have used one.

Not likely to at the price they go for :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Benchwayze]

Too expensive to build, too small a market, too small a functional advantage over a well made wooden shooting board with a "suitable" plane.

Hi BB

I am not sure that I can agree with you here. Yes, the market is small and the price will be relatively high. But "relative" is the operative term. Witness the buyers of Briidge City tools. They obviously make a big enough profit to stay in business. At one stage the prices of LN (as the first production "high grade" - another relative term - company) must have appeared daunting to many when they were used to those of Stanley.

The present high price of originals is due to rarity, and is (I believe) collector, not user, driven.

Yes, I tend to agree. However there are some (like myself) that bought one to use. It is a fantastic tool. I could duplicate its use with shopmade tools (and I have, as you know) but sometimes it is just fun to use something really special

Regards from Perth
Derek

I suppose this tool could handle wider boards than my Guillotine wood-trimmer. However, I doubt it does the job any quicker or any better than my 'Briton', when the blades are kept properly sharp.

Having said that, I would still welcome one into my shop, for those times when my wood-trimmer is too small.

Horses for courses.. ?

 

[Mr Ed]

Will a new verson of the #51/52 come to the market? Yes, eventually. But I will not say from whom.

Just as I thought, you have inside information.... :-k

Some interesting discussion here. My own view is that there would be a market - just think about the popularity of woodworking in the USA for instance. Theres a lot of premium tools around at high prices so I imagine this could be made at a price point that people would buy.

Only time will tell, but its interesting to speculate.

Cheers, Ed

 

[Chris Knight]

There was a modern copy with a couple of improved features made by some guys in the USA. I corresponded with them around 2000/2001 and nearly bought one. They only made about half a dozen though. I was quoted a price of about $800. I subsequently nearly bought an old Stanley original at an auction (complete with hold-down) for £700. I keep wishing I had bought it!

 

[Mr Ed]

I think at that price it would have been a steal.

Cheers, Ed

 

[Hatherton_wood]

They don't fetch as must as they used to. I saw one for £500 this week - not that I bought it! They are a fantastic tool though and worth every penny.