Stanley #4 Problem

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I have just bought a replacement blade & cap iron from Axminster for my Stanley number 4, all nicely honed up and fitted with the cap iron about 1mm from the edge, popped it on the frog and :( :( :( It will not retract enough, it just sticks out a tad, even with the adjuster screwed up tight.

Help please. I know, or hope there is a simple answer.

Simon
 
If the adjuster is really at the maximum of its travel for blade retraction, it can only mean that the replacement blade is longer than the original. Check to see if this is the case. Also check the thickness of the replacement blade as this could also be the cause. As to the solution, When you have the adjustment fully tight you my find that the Y lever arms that it controls are hard up against the frog body, if this is the case you could remove the Y lever by punching out the pivot pin and filing a small V where the 2 arms of the Y lever foul the frog. However sometimes the pin cannot be removed easily try punching lightly from either side but do not use to much force. You may also be able to file two small V in the frog, do not overdo either of these methods, I stress you really should not have to do anything if it is a true replacement. If you cannot manage this solution, you could check how much free play there is in where the part of the Y lever engages with the cap iron, in fact on reflection try this first. There could be a lot, some on the Y lever and some on the cap iron hole. You will appreciate that if there is a lot the adjustment knob and hence movement of the Y lever will have to take up this free play before it will move the blade. If this is the case just slip in a bit of temporary shim (top side) to close the gap and see if you can then fully retract the blade. If this works there are a number of solutions you can find on this forum ( search for Y lever). If all this fails you will have to regrind the plane iron, but be careful not to over heat the blade if dry grinding. One last check see if the frog is adjusted to far forward, if so release the screws and move back, it probably will not make any difference but worth a try. The only reason I mentioned removing the Y lever and filing where it fouls the frog, is that there is often what is called flashing on the Y lever casting, it looks like a seam, this can safely be removed.
 
newt":3dy24oa4 said:
If the adjuster is really at the maximum of its travel for blade retraction, it can only mean that the replacement blade is longer than the original.

I think it's more likely to be a problem with the cap iron than the length of the blade. If you lay the two cap irons down side by side, see whether the slots in which the Y lever engages line up. You may well find that they don't and that is the problem. It's the action between the Y lever and the cap iron that controls the amount by which the blade goes up and down.

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 
Thanks for your posts Newt & Paul.
I have just checked the cap iron with the old one and it is longer by 2mm between the yoke slot and the end of the blade. This will make all the difference. The new blade & cap iron are both genuine Stanley replacements.

Is it alright just to grind 2mm of the end and re-profile it or is there another fix :?:

Simon
 
toplink":z5twq38i said:
Is it alright just to grind 2mm of the end and re-profile it or is there another fix :?:

Simon, if the old cap iron is in reasonable condition, why not use that?

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 
I wrongly assumed that you had checked the cap iron, I would reprofile if your not happy with the old one.
 
The old cap iron is ancient and well past its best, so I think re-profiling the new one is the way to go.
Many thanks guys.

Simon
 
If the cap iron is the standard Stanley fare, grinding off the end might make it unusable because you will be cutting in the curved part of the cap.

DC
 
Simon,

Just another thought. It's worth drawing this problem to the attention of Axminster and asking them to check their stock of Stanley cap irons. It could be one of several problems. Could be that Stanley now have poor manufacturing tolerances and it's pot luck where the slot appears in the cap irons. On the other hand it could be that they have altered the design of the planes slightly and the measurements are now different. Either way, I think it's worth mentioning to them and asking them to send you a Stanley cap iron that will fit a Stanley plane.

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 
On a closer look my plane was made in the USA & is marked 'BAILEY' behind the knob and No. 4 in front of it.

I don't know if trying to fit an English blade into a Colonial made plane is the cause of all my woes.

Simon
 
I have an old USA Stanley Bailey that used to belong to my Dad - it must be 60 or more years old. Blades and cap irons are interchangeable between that and more recent British-made Stanley and Record planes. I think you have been sold a duff cap iron :cry:

Cheers :wink:

Paul
 
Hi, Toplink

What is up with your cap iron? you say its well past its best in what way? I have bought many planes in all sorts of conditions and never had to replace a cap iron, some had to be bent as they had straightened out slightly, but none had the thread striped or any other defect loads needed a good clean some where pitted but all worked and a new one would look out of place in an old plane plus they aren't made as well as new ones!

Not a new cap irorn between them.
stanleyrecordplanes.jpg


Pete
 
Hi,phil


Their 18 in the picture I did it a while ago before I picked up another couple :roll: :wink:

Pete

I have not got a problem
I have not got a problem
I have not got a problem
I have not got a problem
I have not got
 
Not a problem if one goes wrong, you could see if there is counseling available.
 
I say Mr Maddex. Can you do me a big favour seeing the multitude of choice you have?
Could you measure the distance from the front edge of the iron to the edge of the yoke-hole opening please so I can compare it to mine.

My old iron is 91.9 mm, the new one is 93.45 mm.

At least I will known which one is correct.

Simon
 
Hi. Simon

I only have 4 stanley 4s and 2 record 4s :wink:

Stanley 91.76 92.0 92.69 92.1

Record 91.75 93.66

I tried the 93.66 cap iron and blade in the other record and a stanley and they both retracted fully, of the three I have here the yoke holes are 4.6 4.5 and 4.9 so I cant see where your problem lies, have you compared the two back to back that might show the difference. How old is your stanley? is it a new one all mine are fairly old all have 3 part lateral leavers although one has plastic handles (for now).

Pete
 
Old Stanley, 92 and 92
New Stanley 92.5
Record 94mm

(measured with a ruler, so eyball accuracy only)

Could it be you've got a Record iron?
 
Thanks for all the measures.
It seems that the replacement is over size so I will take it up with APT on Monday.

As to the age of my plane, I sort of inherited it but think it could be pre-war.
I can vaguely remember seeing a site on the web somewhere that has the info.

Simon
 
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