Stain woes

[chop chop]

Couple of firsts for me here: 1st picture frame and 1st time using a stain:

My question is why is the stain so patchy?
(I'm looking for the lighter, mid frame effect)
What I've done: frame cut, glued, sealed, lightly sanded (320G), sealed again, lightly sanded(320G again), stain, dry, stain
Could it be sanding (too much, too little), Sealing ? not enough, staining application incorrect?
I'd appreciate a little help- thanks

 

[Vulcan]

Looking at the picture, it’s soaking in more where you sanded it. Across the grain as well.

 

[niall Y]

If there are any glue residues - even if you think you have removed it all - it will stain darker. It is like a magic colouring book only evident when the stain is applied. It might be better - if you are confident about the accuracy of your moulded profile - to finish it first, as is done with purchased picture frames.
Pine can be particularly bad at taking a stain, and a lot of folk apply some form of sanding sealer first, before the stain. You could of course add stain to the finish, so you are not actually staining the wood, but applying a coloured filter to the finish.

 

[chop chop]

Thank you both for your replies.
I was quite careful gluing up - certainly not to the extent it's stained but good to know that. I did give it a couple of coats of the sealant shown - maybe not enough? The instructions did say to smooth the surface after sealing - perhaps that doesn't mean sanding?( I did say I was new to this! )

Re sanding, I was using 320 paper so didn't think it would mark that way - lesson learned.

Luckily this is just a test piece- would it be salvageable?

 

[Cabinetman]

I think the best way to salvage that would be to use a scraper or drag a sharp chisel from the joint along the wood to remove all evidence of sanding, then re stain.
Ian

 

[chop chop]

Thanks Ian
- will give that a go

 

[johnnyb]

What's happened is cross grain sanding on the joints causing the pigment to work stronger on the corners.

 

[johnnyb]

Sorry vulcanised nailed it first..

 

[chop chop]

Thanks Johnnyb
I realise that was a mistake. every day is a school day. won't do that again

 

[recipio]

The spirit stain has soaked into the endgrain by capilliary action. Pine is not a easy wood to stain. It's alternate hard and soft grain take up stain unevenly. Poplar would be a better choice. You will get a far better result with spirit stain by spraying it - you can do several coats in one sitting. After that a lacquer can be sprayed on.

 

[duke]

When I stain pine I use a pre stain conditioner then stain. As already mentioned the key is having the wood sanded or card scraped to the same level for equal absorption.

 

[pgrbff]

Thank you both for your replies.
I was quite careful gluing up - certainly not to the extent it's stained but good to know that. I did give it a couple of coats of the sealant shown - maybe not enough? The instructions did say to smooth the surface after sealing - perhaps that doesn't mean sanding?( I did say I was new to this! )

Re sanding, I was using 320 paper so didn't think it would mark that way - lesson learned.

Luckily this is just a test piece- would it be salvageable?

If you don't mind it a bit smaller cut it at the mitres, sand off all the stain and finish it before re-gluing.

 

[JimTaylor]

The sanding scratches are coarser than 320 grit, you need to remove the scratches before moving on to the next grit.

 

[Vintage Frames]

To use a well worn cliche - if you wanted to go there, then you wouldn't have started from here!

Using a spirit stain alone on pine is only going to give you a thin and dirty looking colour.

Better to start again by sanding the pine wood first before making the frame.
Use 180grit first to flatten the wood, then finish with 320grit.
Now make the frame. You can tidy the mitres then with 320grit again.

Choose a wood stain from the selection here -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/32527106...2ZBMXJ&hash=item4bbbaaa053:g:PVkAAOSwVxpbT7c9
These are water-based stains and much easier to use. Slosh it on, leave it for a few minutes, then wipe it off with a rag.
If you need it darker, do another coat. You can dilute these with water for a lighter colour.
Adding to all this, buy some Van Dyke crystals -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18601732...0dbb:g:O2AAAOSwTo1kyiYb&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA4E
These dissolve easily in hot water. Make up a cup full to a strong solution, and add a little to the wood stain to give it a pleasing 'tone'.

When the frame has dried, give it a quick coat with this sanding sealer -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/32555324...-a3f7-96a787f26106|iid:1|vlpname:vlp_homepage
Dilute some 50:50 with meths and wipe it on with a clean cloth, folded into a pad.

To give the frame colour a bit of 'body' you need to add some brown earth pigments. These are called earth pigments because they mimic the natural colours of nature and wood.
Choose Van Dyke Brown and Raw Umber -
https://www.jacksonsart.com/winsor-newton-galeria-acrylic

Squeeze out 2" of Van Dyke Brown and 1" of Raw Umber.
Mix them together by adding some water, then dilute further until you have a TRANSLUCENT glaze.
Use a 1" wide flat watercolour brush.
You have to make your own judgement here. The glaze should not obliterate the stain colour but add a certain solidity to the depth of finish.

After that has dried, paint on TWO coats of the diluted sanding sealer using the watercolour brush and leave to dry overnight.
Next day, sand the surface lightly with 600grit paper. Sanding will kick up a white powder from the sealer. This is fine but make sure not to dig too deep as this will disturb the underlying earth colour glaze. The sand paper should only have a white deposit on its surface. If you see brown, you're going too deep.

Wipe away the frame surface with a cloth and rub on some wax and you're done!

 

[chop chop]

Hi Vintage Frames - thank you for your very comprehensive reply. There's certainly more to this than I ever thought!

And thanks for the links - this stuff is all new to me..

 

[Terry Smart]

A lot of picture framers use our stains.

Pine is always awkward to stain; the varying porosity in the timber allows the stain to absorb differently, causing the patch effect you have there.

First off, in most cases, stain should be applied to bare wood, don't seal it first.
Pine is an exception to this (but not always); but for this use, we recommend thinning the sealer 50/50 (one of the few times we suggest this); doing this will 'semi-seal' the timber. The more absorbent areas will take in more liquid and be sealed, the other areas will be unaffected. (I think this is what is sold as a pre-conditioner on the other side of the pond).
Apply the stain, you'll get a less patchy effect by being a little liberal with it and wiping off the surplus pretty much straight away.

I always recommend staining and, if possible, finishing the frame before assembly. It avoids the overlap problem, and also any glue residue cannot do any harm.

Hope that's helpful.