Speeding up sanding process (seeking advice)

[RobinBHM]

I think you are right, something rigid and more aggressive for this stage would be great. The top has to be super flat, resin flush with wood and even. If not, when the resin is polished at the final stage, it reflects light like a plastic window rather than a glass window if that makes sense, obscure reflections highlight concave areas.

personally I would start by getting your routing process as accurate as possible -Im not sure what jig you imported -maybe you could improve on the accuracy by building your own -there a loads of linear guide rails now available for CNC making that are super accurate. If you built one with a lead screw and a stepper motor you could get it motorised -that would make the movement far more consistent.

If you can get the machining accuracy to around 0.2mm then you will have far less cleaning up to do....and you could do that without a CNC.

what tooling are you using?

something like this:

Wealdon tools sell a similar one

 

[TRITON]

There are a number of drum sander builds on you tube, something i keep meaning to do myself using my lathe.
If you make anything, then the technicalities of it are not difficult for you.

I cant see how 40 grit on an orbital sander is not going to very rapidly remove machining marks and after that maybe you could skip some grits.

 

[Sachakins]

Just a thought, rather than another big tool, could you use your router flattening jig and add a jig to hold a belt sander.
With some sort of height adjustment on the jig, it would act as a pad sander in reverse, ie move the sander not the piece.

Maybe a stupid idea, but trying to think outside the box a bit!

Edit: maybe add belt sander at same time as router, so you get flattening and first pass sanding all done at the same time, saving you loads of time!

 

[Sean33]

I currently run a successful yet small business making resin and hardwood tables and simply live edge hardwood tables. It is going so well with orders coming in way faster than I can make them, I cannot keep up at all. Business start up has been exhausting and certainly will take some time to build up capital again after upgrading premises and new equipment. I just work alone mainly and for now would like to wait for a bit of stability before possibly employing someone to help out in future.

My problem is speeding up the process with surfacing the tops after they come out of the mould. Currently I am using a festool orbital hand sander which is certainly cleaner with the dust extraction but still takes forever getting the router marks out and keeping the surface flat while going up the grades. I make tables up to 1.2m x 2.4m in size and many of them are not far off that size so it is an incredible amount of sanding time after routering, sometimes sanding all day long just to get the required finish.

I know that there are monster belt or drum sanders out there but I do not have the money to buy one, even if I did, it would be too much for my shop right now as it is a bit cramped and currently have not got 3 phase although will be getting a converter soon for an old Wadkin planer I have bought.
Are there any folks out there who have had this problem of trying to find the best option to speed things up without breaking the bank, like a kind of upgrade to just at least get through the orders in a more reasonable time? Currently it is a slow process for me and I have to do something about it. Any ideas would be greatly welcomed. Possibly could upgrade the sander to the festool rotex? Not sure if anyone uses that and how well it works.

Maybe a silly idea but i will put it out there. Are there any other local cabinet making/veneering businesses near to you? maybe they do not have time/ability to do what you do and maybe you can form some sort of alliance. Failing that pay them to flatten/finish giving you more time and hence output ?

 

[Lefley]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I would love a CNC to flatten these out but yeah, maybe further down the line if things continue to go in the right direction. It would be the ultimate thing really.

Currently I use a steel roller slab jig imported from the states which is rigid, with that I use a trend T11 router with the Titman router bit with changeable blades, it allows for a decent pass and would say there is no more than a millimetre discrepancy really. I think I could possibly improve slightly with that if replacing the router for a new one as it is quite old, still works fine but I do believe that it is slightly off accurate due to wear and tear somehow. It is possibly not quite as accurate as I would like it to be although it is a powerful workhorse considering the work it does. Reason I think the rotex sander might be an idea is that I could possibly sweep over it a few times just to take away the high areas as it would be far more aggressive to save time in the spin mode and could then simply switch it to orbital mode to continue. Interested to know what others are using too before making any rash decisions but I have to do something to speed up.

What is your steel roller slab jig? Can you sent me a link?

 

[Nelly111s]

Out of interest how much grunt does one have? I always think of the small drum sanders as for finishing components already dimensioned. Would one level off an uneven surface too?

It depends - it won't take 1mm off in one pass if that's what you want, even with coarse grit. At least it won't on olive wood. If you were sanding something softer it might, but I haven't used it for that. I have put a worktop through, with 80 grit and a couple of passes gets it flat enough to move on to using a ROS with finer grits. I don't have much need for it for dimensioning - it tend to use the P/T for that.

 

[Jitter]

What is your steel roller slab jig? Can you sent me a link?

https://www.stonecoatcountertops.com/slab-jig/

 

[Jitter]

Maybe a silly idea but i will put it out there. Are there any other local cabinet making/veneering businesses near to you? maybe they do not have time/ability to do what you do and maybe you can form some sort of alliance. Failing that pay them to flatten/finish giving you more time and hence output ?

In-house help with the process in future would be great but the thought of shifting one of these to simply take a millimetre off and then shifting it back to the workshop would be more hassle than 4 hours sanding to be honest. Even 2 men moving these is a graft and I generally work on my own and call on a helping hand when needed, 20 quid to 50 quid here and there. I have to try and do this in the shop really.

 

[Jitter]

Just a thought, rather than another big tool, could you use your router flattening jig and add a jig to hold a belt sander.
With some sort of height adjustment on the jig, it would act as a pad sander in reverse, ie move the sander not the piece.

Maybe a stupid idea, but trying to think outside the box a bit!

Edit: maybe add belt sander at same time as router, so you get flattening and first pass sanding all done at the same time, saving you loads of time!

I like the sander jig idea. There are systems out there that allow power tool configuration with sliding arm but still costly and they tend to do more than I need to do.

 

[Sachakins]

I like the sander jig idea. There are systems out there that allow power tool configuration with sliding arm but still costly and they tend to do more than I need to do.

Maybe you could knock something up with plywood as a jig and give it a try, probably cost nothing (if you have a belt sander,?, )

 

[marcros]

how are you lifting and moving the slabs? Would something like an engine crane be useful rather than struggling?

 

[Jitter]

personally I would start by getting your routing process as accurate as possible -Im not sure what jig you imported -maybe you could improve on the accuracy by building your own -there a loads of linear guide rails now available for CNC making that are super accurate. If you built one with a lead screw and a stepper motor you could get it motorised -that would make the movement far more consistent.

If you can get the machining accuracy to around 0.2mm then you will have far less cleaning up to do....and you could do that without a CNC.

what tooling are you using?

something like this:

Wealdon tools sell a similar one

I agree, I think the router is the problem rather than the jig, the router used to do better flatness than it does now but still not great. It’s a workhorse machine alright but think the accuracy has slipped a bit.

I am currently using similar to the Wealden bit in the picture with replacement rotatable square blades, it is a Titman one. Before I was using a Wealden one with fixed blades but curved at the edges which was good but replacing them often was expensive. With the replaceable square blades is far more convenient and cost effective but with accuracy slipping on slight tilt, they tear grain and chip resin a little which is not cool and introducing allot of sanding to get them out. I think that even if I bought a new router and got a near flat finish, still could do with a bit of aggressive sanding evenly to quicken up the process.

 

[Jitter]

I agree, I think the router is the problem rather than the jig, the router used to do better flatness than it does now but still not great. It’s a workhorse machine alright but think the accuracy has slipped a bit.

I am currently using similar to the Wealden bit in the picture with replacement rotatable square blades, it is a Titman one. Before I was using a Wealden one with fixed blades but curved at the edges which was good but replacing them often was expensive. With the replaceable square blades is far more convenient and cost effective but with accuracy slipping on slight tilt, they tear grain and chip resin a little which is not cool and introducing allot of sanding to get them out. I think that even if I bought a new router and got a near flat finish, still could do with a bit of aggressive sanding evenly to quicken up the process.

https://www.stonecoatcountertops.com/slab-jig/

 

[Jitter]

Maybe you could knock something up with plywood as a jig and give it a try, probably cost nothing (if you have a belt sander,?, )

No belt sander as yet, I guess the wider the better if fixed well onto a jig.

 

[Jitter]

how are you lifting and moving the slabs? Would something like an engine crane be useful rather than struggling?

Yes I generally have to get lads for a few minutes to help me lift them out of the epoxy room (timber kit room built within the workshop, It is a controlled dry atmosphere in there unlike the rest of the shop, basically a steel shed with no insulation etc, not ideal for moisture in the air and is a bit fresh but generally dry) I have to step down out the timber kit room onto the concrete floor and round to where I have a large table I do the work to the top once formed. I usually route the top side first then get a hand to flip it over, route and practically finish all machine work to the underside then flip it again onto laminate flooring underlay with spacers propping it up of the surface, then I sand the top, get a hand back into the dry room leaving it upside down again , polish the resin and oil/varnish the wood, then have it flipped again to do the same to the top. Sizing and edging the top is done with the festool and guide rail at various points after routing depending on which way up the top is at the time to prevent any breakout on the corners. The real killer is the delivery get a hand lifting it down the sloping concrete ramp into the van and usually just bring my brother with me to drop off and install onto whatever table base it has. Thinking of getting removal men organised locally to the drop area so that there are no horrible surprises to worry about, been lucky so far with easy entrances but it is still a killer I never look forward to. My brother and I, we are strong but small build and really actually is not safe for us two to lift alone. We manage but it is a struggle.

 

[alanwetherall]

Go to youtube and look at building your own drum sander, she makes it for fine finishing on guitar backs

Susan Gardener
you just need to make it wider than shed does
alan

 

[Jitter]

There are a number of drum sander builds on you tube, something i keep meaning to do myself using my lathe.
If you make anything, then the technicalities of it are not difficult for you.

I cant see how 40 grit on an orbital sander is not going to very rapidly remove machining marks and after that maybe you could skip some grits.

I’ll take a look at the drum sander ideas. Currently using 60 grit but tends to chip epoxy slightly, difficult to see until polishing stage, I feel that if I go to 40 grit it will be more uneven and harder to finish. I can’t skip grits unfortunately, resin will not allow it, it is a more religious effort than wood. Generally I have to go 60,80, 100, 120, 180, 240, 360 on the wood and resin then 400,600,800,1000,mainly on resin then abralon 1000,2000 grit wet sanding then two polish grits up to about 5k grit. Miss out any or not quite get scratches from previous grades out then have to go back down the grades far enough, often 600 grit upwards again repeated.

 

[Sandyn]

Here's a crazy idea....why not hire a floor belt sander and see if that sands flat quickly

The big drum floor sanders can remove wood at a crazy rate. Perhaps worth hiring for a day to see.

 

[Jitter]

Bearings won't cause the stepping. That is a difference in the base and columns not being perpendicular/parallel to the shaft of the router. If the base is bolted/screwed to the sled you can loosen it and add shims under the side digging deeper until it takes out the mismatch. Shims can be pieces of paper, plastic or beer cans cut appart. Drink the beer first and do the shimming another day. Shims go under the base by the low side of the cut. If someone can give you the bearing numbers off the bearings then you can get them cheaper at a bearing supplier. Then you can have the bearings in hand when you take the router apart, saving time.

With the price of that CNC you are getting close to the machines I linked to that with their big cutters and ability to put a sanding pad on are designed for the job.

The "pad" sander would be called a stroke sander over here. There aren't too many made to sand the size and weight of slabs you are working with. If my shop were bigger I would buy or make a stoke sander in a heartbeat.

Pete

Thanks bro, I shimmed it with a coke can wedge in the end. Solved the problem for now at least.

 

[Inspector]

Things go better with Coke. Pepsi taste better though!

Pete