Speeding up sanding process (seeking advice)

[Jitter]

With the 4000w spindle I don't see a problem

Also spotted this on another forum

Re: Trend T11 routers
I use one. Now on second set of bearings. Just bought the dewalt parts as both the same. These ones have lasted longer than the first, but it doesn't take long to change them so not really a big problem

Right, do you think that this could be the reason it is slightly tilted? It is always off on the same direction, tilting back although I use it sideways in the sled because the handles breach so it leaves ridges rather than concave if you see what I mean? If there is a good chance the bearings are doing this I’d definitely prefer to attempt a repair rather than buy a new one right now.

 

[Inspector]

Bearings won't cause the stepping. That is a difference in the base and columns not being perpendicular/parallel to the shaft of the router. If the base is bolted/screwed to the sled you can loosen it and add shims under the side digging deeper until it takes out the mismatch. Shims can be pieces of paper, plastic or beer cans cut appart. Drink the beer first and do the shimming another day. Shims go under the base by the low side of the cut. If someone can give you the bearing numbers off the bearings then you can get them cheaper at a bearing supplier. Then you can have the bearings in hand when you take the router apart, saving time.

With the price of that CNC you are getting close to the machines I linked to that with their big cutters and ability to put a sanding pad on are designed for the job.

The "pad" sander would be called a stroke sander over here. There aren't too many made to sand the size and weight of slabs you are working with. If my shop were bigger I would buy or make a stoke sander in a heartbeat.

Pete

 

[Sachakins]

Right, do you think that this could be the reason it is slightly tilted? It is always off on the same direction, tilting back although I use it sideways in the sled because the handles breach so it leaves ridges rather than concave if you see what I mean? If there is a good chance the bearings are doing this I’d definitely prefer to attempt a repair rather than buy a new one right now.

There is a good chance this is route cause as bearing wear could allow slight spindle angle or racking, I would also check the collet first for scoring or burrs, this would prevent cutting tool sitting square.
If you go for the bearing replacement, ensure you go for a good set rated for around 20,000 rpm, I would go to an engineering bearing supplier, like SKF, to get recommendations, ebay and amazon et al are rife with cheap bearing prices, none of which i suspect would be up to the job.
Also the high quality bearing from an engineering bearing specialist is likely less expensive than a Trend one.

I am assuming your settup is parallel and doesn't require shimming!

 

[Jitter]

There is a good chance this is route cause as bearing wear could allow slight spindle angle or racking, I would also check the collet first for scoring or burrs, this would prevent cutting tool sitting square.
If you go for the bearing replacement, ensure you go for a good set rated for around 20,000 rpm, I would go to an engineering bearing supplier, like SKF, to get recommendations, ebay and amazon et al are rife with cheap bearing prices, none of which i suspect would be up to the job.
Also the high quality bearing from an engineering bearing specialist is likely less expensive than a Trend one.

Thanks for your advise there, I know little about the engineering parts as to be honest, I’ve had this router for 10 years or so and never once has it been looked at or let me down. I’m guessing sending it to someone competent to take a look at it wouldn’t be a bad idea really, sure it would benefit from a bit of reconditioning, if it doesn’t fix the issue at least I know it’s limitations and could get a second T11, it’s always handy to have extra for less setup time with repetitive work. Constantly taking my home made base for the slab jig on and off to use it for other things, gets a bit annoying after a while but it gives me an excuse to give it a good clean as I’m doing it. The only other router I have is the T9 which I use for the table edge forming, a good little router too which I barely took out of the box before making these tables. Anyhow, I think for now, sorting the router problem and possibly purchasing an aggressive sander will most likely save me allot of sanding time in the shop. Thanks very much for your help on this.

 

[--Tom--]

Thanks, I hadn’t seen these pad sanders before, I’m liking the price tag on it. I could stretch that a bit probably to get a decent one if it will do the job with reasonable accuracy. I’d need one that would do maximum of 8x4’ table top. I draw the line at this size making them because they are a killer weight.

They’re simple machines so should be fine 2nd hand. New they cost a fortune, and due to the move to wide belt sanders they’re relatively cheap used as need an operator to use them rather than just load and leave.
If I had the space I’d have one.

T11 are the same as dewalt and Elu before that so simple enough to swap bearings on. There are a few detailed write ups on this online that are worth reading before taking yours to bits. Consistent step (and assuming not squealing like a banshee) does sound like a bit of beer can shim would sort though

 

[Jitter]

They’re simple machines so should be fine 2nd hand. New they cost a fortune, and due to the move to wide belt sanders they’re relatively cheap used as need an operator to use them rather than just load and leave.
If I had the space I’d have one.

T11 are the same as dewalt and Elu before that so simple enough to swap bearings on. There are a few detailed write ups on this online that are worth reading before taking yours to bits. Consistent step (and assuming not squealing like a banshee) does sound like a bit of beer can shim would sort though

I will have a further look into these sanders, definitely seems more cost effective and a worthwhile investment.

The T11 sounds ok, no unusual noise really. I guess I could shim the base for now to continue work, great idea.

 

[Nelly111s]

You mentioned 3 phase- not all drum sanders are 3 pages. I have a JET 22/44 which is only single phase. Needs good dust extraction, but if you could find one of these second hand it would tick the box.

 

[--Tom--]

You mentioned 3 phase- not all drum sanders are 3 pages. I have a JET 22/44 which is only single phase. Needs good dust extraction, but if you could find one of these second hand it would tick the box.

Out of interest how much grunt does one have? I always think of the small drum sanders as for finishing components already dimensioned. Would one level off an uneven surface too?

 

[julianf]

I've got another thread on here at present concerning a very make shift router sled I've "built" from steel with a cheap second hand router.

I'm amazed at the finish it gives. Sure there is banding, but it takes virtually no time to remove with my da sander.

It's difficult to be objective with so many variables, but I wonder if somthing is slightly amiss with your current setup?

 

[RobinBHM]

Thanks, I hadn’t seen these pad sanders before, I’m liking the price tag on it. I could stretch that a bit probably to get a decent one if it will do the job with reasonable accuracy. I’d need one that would do maximum of 8x4’ table top. I draw the line at this size making them because they are a killer weight.

Pad sanders have been superseded by through feed belt sanders...so they are cheap to buy.

They take up a lot of space.

They are nice to use- take a lot of practice if sanding veneer, but should be fine for your application.

The table slides front and back ....and the pad slides front back sideways.

 

[RobinBHM]

Here's a crazy idea....why not hire a floor belt sander and see if that sands flat quickly

Are you not using a belt sander before using RO sander? - a belt sander with a frame is an option.

What you are missing is the dimension sanding phase - that is what flattens, it does it by having a hard backing to the abrasive. Belt sanders have a stainless steel platen backed with thin cork or sometimes graphite cloth. So they dimension sand rather than just follow the contours.

Any orbital or RA sander will have a rubber backing and will not dimension sand

 

[RobinBHM]

A wide belt sander isn't a realistic option unless you have a decent 3ph power supply.

I had a 2 head 1100 wide belt sander, each head had 25hp motors

 

[OldWood]

Jitter - you are local to me. PM me as I may be able to help - there is a drum sander in Broxburn that is not currenlty being used.

 

[johnnyb]

its an interesting phase of your business. im guessing your product is amazing and extremely fashionable atm. the problem is speeding up the whole shebang on a shoestring. for a few tables makeshift will do, the same thinking can be extended to a small business. if you had a thousand orders you may approach the whole thing in a more industrial heavy duty fashion. I would be concerned about the amount of sanding and(epoxy) dust involved doing this at a very ambitious low level(ie with hand held power)
its a bit like timber framing in that machines big enough to work it are very big heavy and expensive. but its possible to work using hand held and the timber staying still but its slow and cumbersome and a bit unpleasant.

 

[Jitter]

Pad sanders have been superseded by through feed belt sanders...so they are cheap to buy.

They take up a lot of space.

They are nice to use- take a lot of practice if sanding veneer, but should be fine for your application.

The table slides front and back ....and the pad slides front back sideways.

Thanks, I was wondering how they operate.

 

[Jitter]

Here's a crazy idea....why not hire a floor belt sander and see if that sands flat quickly

Are you not using a belt sander before using RO sander? - a belt sander with a frame is an option.

What you are missing is the dimension sanding phase - that is what flattens, it does it by having a hard backing to the abrasive. Belt sanders have a stainless steel platen backed with thin cork or sometimes graphite cloth. So they dimension sand rather than just follow the contours.

Any orbital or RA sander will have a rubber backing and will not dimension sand

I think you are right, something rigid and more aggressive for this stage would be great. The top has to be super flat, resin flush with wood and even. If not, when the resin is polished at the final stage, it reflects light like a plastic window rather than a glass window if that makes sense, obscure reflections highlight concave areas.

 

[Jitter]

Jitter - you are local to me. PM me as I may be able to help - there is a drum sander in Broxburn that is not currenlty being used.

That sounds good, I will definitely be in touch, taking kids to the park right now but will PM ASAP! Thanks

 

[doctor Bob]

It would take me 15 minutes to flatten a table on my wide belt sander, assuming it's relatively level. I'd probably charge you £20 plus £12 for a belt.
Seems a no brainer just to find someone with a wide belt sander.

 

[Jitter]

its an interesting phase of your business. im guessing your product is amazing and extremely fashionable atm. the problem is speeding up the whole shebang on a shoestring. for a few tables makeshift will do, the same thinking can be extended to a small business. if you had a thousand orders you may approach the whole thing in a more industrial heavy duty fashion. I would be concerned about the amount of sanding and(epoxy) dust involved doing this at a very ambitious low level(ie with hand held power)
its a bit like timber framing in that machines big enough to work it are very big heavy and expensive. but its possible to work using hand held and the timber staying still but its slow and cumbersome and a bit unpleasant.

Yes the products are definitely in demand, I am and the website is geared around custom design for example resin colour, wood type and character, shape and size, type and style of base/legs etc. Limited options but generally a product where no two are the same. I find that when I make them for stock, they lay around for ages before someone sees it and decides to buy, I was getting more people asking...can I have this but in a different size or colour, different legs etc. By then, the wood stock used was all used up, huge outlay in resin and time etc for theses tables laying around waiting to sell. However the custom build enquiries from the site have been recently 2 per day recently and I’m not promoting the site much. These are 80% custom U.K. enquiries with about a 50% success rate for putting a deposit for materials and booking months in advance. These tables range from around 2k to 7k so far and in the most part for these people, they have the money and don’t question the cost. Of course some do and are not willing to go ahead.

 

[Jitter]

It would take me 15 minutes to flatten a table on my wide belt sander, assuming it's relatively level. I'd probably charge you £20 plus £12 for a belt.
Seems a no brainer just to find someone with a wide belt sander.

I understand, moving these things around is not easy, I work on my own and have to call for help sometimes even to flip them over. 4 hours sanding seems easier but if I quicken that up, it makes more sense or even get an affordable machine in-house would be the ideal thing for me now.