Speeding up sanding process (seeking advice)

[Jitter]

I currently run a successful yet small business making resin and hardwood tables and simply live edge hardwood tables. It is going so well with orders coming in way faster than I can make them, I cannot keep up at all. Business start up has been exhausting and certainly will take some time to build up capital again after upgrading premises and new equipment. I just work alone mainly and for now would like to wait for a bit of stability before possibly employing someone to help out in future.

My problem is speeding up the process with surfacing the tops after they come out of the mould. Currently I am using a festool orbital hand sander which is certainly cleaner with the dust extraction but still takes forever getting the router marks out and keeping the surface flat while going up the grades. I make tables up to 1.2m x 2.4m in size and many of them are not far off that size so it is an incredible amount of sanding time after routering, sometimes sanding all day long just to get the required finish.

I know that there are monster belt or drum sanders out there but I do not have the money to buy one, even if I did, it would be too much for my shop right now as it is a bit cramped and currently have not got 3 phase although will be getting a converter soon for an old Wadkin planer I have bought.
Are there any folks out there who have had this problem of trying to find the best option to speed things up without breaking the bank, like a kind of upgrade to just at least get through the orders in a more reasonable time? Currently it is a slow process for me and I have to do something about it. Any ideas would be greatly welcomed. Possibly could upgrade the sander to the festool rotex? Not sure if anyone uses that and how well it works.

 

[Sideways]

It's the wrong answer for the current state of your business but if you had an 8x4" commercial grade CNC router, the machine would accurately flatten your tables exactly the same way it will flatten a "spoil board" on which other pieces are cut.
Flatten as accurately as possible by machine and this will minimise the amount of sanding required.
Do you have / do you use a rigid router sled that will let you flatten the slabs to within a fraction of a millimetre ?
If not, it might be worth getting something fabricated out of steel strong enough not to sag across the width of your largest tables

 

[bourbon]

Sadly, this is the biggest hurdle to anyone building a business, It's only you that can decide what you do. A drum sander will certainly help you, But as you say, no three phase and no space. So you have to invest in both. BUT, will the business be able to support this, again only you can make the decision.

 

[Jitter]

It's the wrong answer for the current state of your business but if you had an 8x4" commercial grade CNC router, the machine would accurately flatten your tables exactly the same way it will flatten a "spoil board" on which other pieces are cut.
Flatten as accurately as possible by machine and this will minimise the amount of sanding required.
Do you have / do you use a rigid router sled that will let you flatten the slabs to within a fraction of a millimetre ?
If not, it might be worth getting something fabricated out of steel strong enough not to sag across the width of your largest tables

Hi, thanks for your reply. I would love a CNC to flatten these out but yeah, maybe further down the line if things continue to go in the right direction. It would be the ultimate thing really.

Currently I use a steel roller slab jig imported from the states which is rigid, with that I use a trend T11 router with the Titman router bit with changeable blades, it allows for a decent pass and would say there is no more than a millimetre discrepancy really. I think I could possibly improve slightly with that if replacing the router for a new one as it is quite old, still works fine but I do believe that it is slightly off accurate due to wear and tear somehow. It is possibly not quite as accurate as I would like it to be although it is a powerful workhorse considering the work it does. Reason I think the rotex sander might be an idea is that I could possibly sweep over it a few times just to take away the high areas as it would be far more aggressive to save time in the spin mode and could then simply switch it to orbital mode to continue. Interested to know what others are using too before making any rash decisions but I have to do something to speed up.

 

[Jitter]

Sadly, this is the biggest hurdle to anyone building a business, It's only you that can decide what you do. A drum sander will certainly help you, But as you say, no three phase and no space. So you have to invest in both. BUT, will the business be able to support this, again only you can make the decision.

Yes my thoughts about it at the moment too. I think it would work out well but the investment would be huge and as I have just doubled my workspace a year ago, I just feel that speeding up a bit for another year before going all out. I am at the point where for the first time, the business is actually sustaining itself and a little bit more and the website is really bringing in more than I bargained for lol but I can’t complain as it is definitely better than being quiet. I can’t see it slowing down so I just thought that some small improvements could allow me to speed up a bit so that proof of business and more money coming in to support expansion in the near future before actually going for it.

 

[marcros]

I have seen some of these on YouTube, and admittedly many are USA based, but at least one maker (who does reasonable numbers rather than the odd one) pays by the hour to run them through somebody's wide belt sander when they are too big for his own machine.

Is that a possibility?

 

[doctor Bob]

Find a joinery shop with a wide belt sander and hire it for a few hours.

 

[stimpy]

I’m no expert on large machines but I can say a Rotex will make light work of taking it down. That’s possibly your easiest / smallest / cheapest solution .
Does also sound potentially like your router sled / router combo isn’t performing as well as it could...

 

[Inspector]

I answered this question in the duplicate thread. You should ask the mods to blend the two threads together into one. I thought I was loosing it when I couldn't find my replies in here.

Pete

 

[TheTiddles]

Time to partner up! This isn’t my business area (hobby only), but when you can’t keep up in-house, it’s time to out-source, we do it all the time for that reason.

I’ve got an ash slab that could be drum sanded, I don’t have one but there’s a local carpentry company just round the corner. I pinged them an email and expected at most a polite no, or more likely no reply at all... instead it was “bring it round on a Saturday morning”

Aidan

 

[--Tom--]

Pad sanders are much cheaper than large belt sanders and will cover the area.
Something like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dankaert-Pad-Sander-800-Vat-/154017895781?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

the festool random orbit will be much slower than using a rites orhand held belt sander. Makita are normally the go to, but the older Wolf’s are good if budget won’t stretch, e.g

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WOLF-BEL...-/133650176148?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

 

[southendwoodworker]

idea 1: find a wood working company and rent use of their big sander

idea 2:

could you make up a jig similar to this to product https://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/surfacingjig/

and use a router bit that looks something like this: Surface Trepanning Three Wing

the rails should probably be made out of something super sturdy like steel bar

I have no experience with this myself, but it might remove most of the marks and minimise your hand sanding

 

[Sachakins]

Have you looked into refurbishing your router, new bearings, better collet may be enough of a gain at the present time?

 

[Jitter]

I have seen some of these on YouTube, and admittedly many are USA based, but at least one maker (who does reasonable numbers rather than the odd one) pays by the hour to run them through somebody's wide belt sander when they are too big for his own machine.

Is that a possibility?

Think I know the YouTube guy you talk about, he makes some nice tables. I have approached a few wood mills and joiner shops but I either get no reply or simply told they are just to busy. Not much luck that way as yet. The width of these tables is much of the time too wide for the machines they have too. I think the wood Wizz looks really something to take seriously, I can see me investing in future!

 

[Jitter]

Have you looked into refurbishing your router, new bearings, better collet may be enough of a gain at the present time?

Good idea, trouble is it’s the only one I have that does the job, i guess it would be worth missing it for a bit, was thinking I could just buy another T11 and possibly use this one on a router table for doing other tasks, edge rounding or something less critical.

 

[Sachakins]

Good idea, trouble is it’s the only one I have that does the job, i guess it would be worth missing it for a bit, was thinking I could just buy another T11 and possibly use this one on a router table for doing other tasks, edge rounding or something less critical.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Rout...-/264975344219?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

 

[Jitter]

idea 1: find a wood working company and rent use of their big sander

idea 2:

could you make up a jig similar to this to product https://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/surfacingjig/

and use a router bit that looks something like this: Surface Trepanning Three Wing

the rails should probably be made out of something super sturdy like steel bar

I have no experience with this myself, but it might remove most of the marks and minimise your hand sanding

Thanks but I do have already a decent slab jig, thinking the router is one of the probs with it being slightly off alignment, it’s not helping me anyway so think that needs sorted out.

 

[Jitter]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Rout...-/264975344219?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Loving these machines but again a healthy price tag. Do you think this one would work efficiently flattening out an 8x4 resin and hardwood top? Most of the machines I’ve seen look more heavy duty, these tables are a silly weight and tough to cut. I mostly use oak as it is the most commonly chosen for these tables, much of it has heavy burr and knots etc, character wood slabs.

 

[Sachakins]

Loving these machines but again a healthy price tag. Do you think this one would work efficiently flattening out an 8x4 resin and hardwood top? Most of the machines I’ve seen look more heavy duty, these tables are a silly weight and tough to cut. I mostly use oak as it is the most commonly chosen for these tables, much of it has heavy burr and knots etc, character wood slabs.

With the 4000w spindle I don't see a problem

Also spotted this on another forum

Re: Trend T11 routers
I use one. Now on second set of bearings. Just bought the dewalt parts as both the same. These ones have lasted longer than the first, but it doesn't take long to change them so not really a big problem

 

[Jitter]

Pad sanders are much cheaper than large belt sanders and will cover the area.
Something like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dankaert-Pad-Sander-800-Vat-/154017895781?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

the festool random orbit will be much slower than using a rites orhand held belt sander. Makita are normally the go to, but the older Wolf’s are good if budget won’t stretch, e.g

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WOLF-BEL...-/133650176148?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

Thanks, I hadn’t seen these pad sanders before, I’m liking the price tag on it. I could stretch that a bit probably to get a decent one if it will do the job with reasonable accuracy. I’d need one that would do maximum of 8x4’ table top. I draw the line at this size making them because they are a killer weight.