Speed Limit

[Geoff_S]

The technology exists to limit speeds wherever the vehicle happens to be and could be reset to reflect deteriorating conditions. I use my iPhone map app as my navigation and when driving it shows the posted speed I should be observing as I drive. My older truck (2015 Nissan) did the same. It would barely be a doodle for manufacturers to apply the GPS location info to the throttle and limit the speed as it travels down the road adjusted for the conditions. You could still floor the car at an intersection but it won't let you go any faster than the posted speed. You can bet people will go nuts if their control is taken away from them but it would stop excessive speeding. And you would never have to look down at the speedo letting you watch for other potential hazards.

The funny thing about the human brain is when you are young nothing scares you so you drive like a bat out of h###. When you are an old fogey you drive slowly and cautiously. It is really opposite to the way it should work. Drive slowly when young in order to live a long time and like an lunatic when old because you don't have much time left. Maybe we need reprogramming of our little brains.

Pete

I think the Apple Maps determine the speed based upon user reports. Best not to totally rely on it.

The system in my Range Rover reads the speed limit signs. Not good on a 50mph 6 lane dual carriageway as you pass the slip road set to 30mph. It picks up the 30mph limit and fortunately does not have the facility to slow the car down.

There’s a little way to go yet on this idea.

 

[Inspector]

Geoff that is something I had never seen before. I assumed it worked off data Google earth supplied with their camera mounted cars that make the rounds of the roads periodically. Like I said it was also on the mapping system my older truck had built in that wasn't using the phone. If they wanted the cars to be moving at the posted speeds it wouldn't take much to get the system working.

Pete

 

[Terry - Somerset]

All new vehicles sold in Europe will be fitted with a mandatory speed limiter from 2024 to keep cars within the speed limits and boost road safety. The UK will also apply this legislation.

I understand it works through speed sign recognition and/or GPS and sat-nav data. For the moment the driver can turn it off. I can see a number of impediments:

• it can inadvertently pick up limits on signs on adjacent roads
• if using GPS data this needs to be regularly updated - updates may be a cost burden
• cross roads and bridges can be ambiguous - eg: an urban road bridge crossing a motorway
• existing vehicles will continue without speed limiters until scrapped - 20 years ??

A better source of data would be an internet connected database eliminating the vagaries of sat-nav not updated, and poorly maintained or missing speed signs.

The intent is worthy but I am unconvinced it is workable. Perhaps in (say) 10 years when 50%+ of cars are so equipped the system will be activated, with a time limit on non-equipped cars.

Like many technologies now fitted to current cars - autonomous braking, parking, collision avoidance, cruise control etc - this may be just a step in the evolution of driverless technologies.

IMHO it is only a matter of time before driverless transport becomes the norm - it will anyway be compliant with speed limits. They may even have the capacity to implement variable speed limits depending on time of day, road congestion, traffic volumes, weather conditions etc.

 

[Ozi]

Always an interesting debate but fundamentally this isn’t about your rights it about the rights of others. Others should have a right to safety unaffected by your choices to exceed your capabilities.
I’m all for restricting vehicles to the posted limit. Our car is already capable of that.

I would agree but I'd like to see a major review of limits first. I lived in a village where the posted limit was 40, most people stuck to around 25 as that was the suitable speed given the narrow twisting road, close to where I now live there are some 30 limits which in my opinion should be 40. A proper review of the criterion and more scientific review than my opinion followed by mandating speed limiting on all new vehicles is coming, each year the percentage accuracy requires of sign recognition on new homologations is increasing. Personally limiting maximum acceleration is probably more important than limiting maximum speed, Range Rover Sport 2340Kg to 60 4.3 seconds depending on spec. (just to pick on a vehicle I know about there are plenty of other examples) you would need to be a better driver than me to handle performance like that, and so would people around you.

Kill joy was here

 

[Inspector]

I suppose the cell tower system can be used along with GPS etc.

I'll be happy to have a self driving car once they can make them work in all weather since by then I'll be an old git that shouldn't be driving and it'll be the only way I'll be able to get around.

Pete

 

[RonnieI]

The bolded word exposes your bias.
You are right the law requires you to drive at the appropriate speed for the road up to the posted limit. Unfortunately 40% of people admit to breaking limits at 20 and 30mph and up to 60% at 70mph RAC Survey
Far too many people simply consider their right to break the law above those the law has been put in place to protect.
Of course people will continue to drive faster than the conditions warrant, even in a 20mph zone but that’s where policing needs to come in. Let’s enable the police to focus on that by mandatory speed limiters or at least speed monitors fitted to cars removing the endemic problem of people seeing speed limits as a problem for them rather than a protection for others.

Interesting yesterday, I was coming back down the A1 from the BTCC meeting at Croft. Set the cruise at 72 (dead on 70 by GPS). I only had to overtake the odd caravan and lorry. Did the same at 75. Only when I set the cruise at 80 did I start overtaking other cars. There were several cars coming past obviously in excess of 90. I think that speed isn't so much the issue on motorways, it's people switching off and driving with seemingly no awareness of other vehicles (middle lane hoggers especially!).

 

[John Hughes01]

I seem to remember a study into reducing the motoreway speed to 50 which proved that drivers get there quicker with less backups

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I think a problem with arbitrary limits like the minimum wage and speed limits is they become targets. People will drive at 39mph in a 40mph limit when they shouldn't really be doing more that 25mph because of the road/weather conditions at the time. Motorways possibly being the worst, how often have we seen people travelling at 20mph or 30mph higher that the weather conditions should dictate - the limit is 70mph, so I'm OK, I'm only doing 69mph.
Firms know the minimum wage is all they have to pay, so that's what they offer - they know the firm down the road is offering the same, and so is the firm up the road.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I think that speed isn't so much the issue on motorways, it's people switching off and driving with seemingly no awareness of other vehicles (middle lane hoggers especially!).

Years ago when the roads were quieter I drove up to London. I got in a group of about 15 cars, all BMWs, Mercs, Jags, Porsches - decent cars. We were travelling up the M5 at about 115mph - 125mph, every few minutes the tail marker overtook the group and took the lead. Beautiful weather, an open road, it was good, safe driving. We went under a motorway bridge where there was a jam sandwich parked up, he blipped his blue light once - as if if to say be careful, lads, you're going a bit fast. We slowed and watched in our mirrors for a couple of miles, but he didn't follow us.

I went to bike rally, and as we went further up the road, the group got larger until there was abut a hundred of us. Doing 90mph - 100mph on the M5 we came across a solitary old lady in a Morris Minor doing about 40mph in the middle lane. Little hat on, sitting bolt upright, hands glued to the wheel at ten to two. I wondered how this would pan out. 50 bikes went outside, 50 went inside. I looked in my mirror - I swear her knuckles were white.

 

[Agent_zed]

its all down to personal responsibility and if you get that wrong you pay

what about the innocent person who pays the highest price?

 

[MikeJhn]

IMO there ought to be legislation on how loud you can talk in a public place.

 

[Agent_zed]

Years ago when the roads were quieter I drove up to London. I got in a group of about 15 cars, all BMWs, Mercs, Jags, Porsches - decent cars. We were travelling up the M5 at about 115mph - 125mph, every few minutes the tail marker overtook the group and took the lead. Beautiful weather, an open road, it was good, safe driving. We went under a motorway bridge where there was a jam sandwich parked up, he blipped his blue light once - as if if to say be careful, lads, you're going a bit fast. We slowed and watched in our mirrors for a couple of miles, but he didn't follow us.

I went to bike rally, and as we went further up the road, the group got larger until there was abut a hundred of us. Doing 90mph - 100mph on the M5 we came across a solitary old lady in a Morris Minor doing about 40mph in the middle lane. Little hat on, sitting bolt upright, hands glued to the wheel at ten to two. I wondered how this would pan out. 50 bikes went outside, 50 went inside. I looked in my mirror - I swear her knuckles were white.

Am I meant to side with the 50 people doing 20-30mph over the speed limit or the lady doing 20mph lower (assuming your guess was correct) than the lowest speed limit (60mph for lorries/caravans etc)? Lucky it wasn't a stationary object that had fallen off a lorry I guess.

at 70mph you are doing 31.29m/s
at 90mph you are doing 40.23m/s

In 1 sec you would have had 9m more to react if you were doing the maximum legal speed. Quite a chunk of the 21m of thinking distance https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/the-5-elements-of-cbt/element-c/braking/

 

[Jester129]

Don't forget the bends where there is a 'Max speed 35' (e.g.) when cars nowadays can comfortably take said bend at 50. When were these speeds set? 50 years ago and never changed?

 

[MikeJhn]

Swanscombe cut on the A2 in Kent was a notorious accident spot, three lanes wide, but a steep hill, two lorries side by side in lane one and two and the third lane with a slow car or van used to cause a multitude of accidents with cars swerving in the third lane to avoid each other, this has been alleviated to a certain extent by the advance in tyre technology and more modern cars with anti-lock brakes, but does tend to back the hypothesis that speed differential is a major factor in multi carriageway accidents.

 

[MikeJhn]

Don't forget the bends where there is a 'Max speed 35' (e.g.) when cars nowadays can comfortably take said bend at 50. When were these speeds set? 50 years ago and never changed?

Bring back the man walking in front of the vehicle with a lamp. (am I allowed to say man or should it be gender neutral)

 

[woodieallen]

Am I meant to side with the 50 people doing 20-30mph over the speed limit or the lady doing 20mph lower (assuming your guess was correct) than the lowest speed limit (60mph for lorries/caravans etc)? Lucky it wasn't a stationary object that had fallen off a lorry I guess.

at 70mph you are doing 31.29m/s
at 90mph you are doing 40.23m/s

In 1 sec you would have had 9m more to react if you were doing the maximum legal speed. Quite a chunk of the 21m of thinking distance https://begin-motorcycling.co.uk/the-5-elements-of-cbt/element-c/braking/

Yebbut...pedestrians are not supposed to be on motorways

 

[woodieallen]

Bring back the man walking in front of the vehicle with a lamp. (am I allowed to say man or should it be gender neutral)

Depends if they are identifying with a cat that morning

 

[woodieallen]

Don't forget the bends where there is a 'Max speed 35' (e.g.) when cars nowadays can comfortably take said bend at 50. When were these speeds set? 50 years ago and never changed?

Surely only muppets follow that sign ?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Don't forget the bends where there is a 'Max speed 35' (e.g.) when cars nowadays can comfortably take said bend at 50. When were these speeds set? 50 years ago and never changed?

Brake distances for driving tests is a classic example - I think they were decided when a Moggie took half a mile to stop from 50mph.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

a steep hill, two lorries side by side in lane one ...

for miles ... the stupidity of restricting their engines.