Speed Awareness Course

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The statistics are clear - speed vs probability of pedestrian severe injury or death increases geometrically. At 20mph = ~10%, 30mph = ~33%, 35mph = ~50%, 40mph = ~75%+.

Average speed in urban areas tends to exceed the posted limit (congestion permitting). Limits are usually policed (if at all) allowing some margin - eg: up to 35mph in a 30mph limit.

Simple observation - In a 30mph limit cars may typically travel at 30-38mph. I probably frequently do this driving at the speed of the prevailing traffic.

Reducing the limit to 20mph in appropriate areas thus probably reduces actual speeds to 20-25mph making a substantial difference to severe injury or death.

To be sustainable these limits either need to be rigorously enforced or have the support of the majority of drivers (or both). Thus limits should be imposed only where appropriate, not as blanket area limits.
The additional factor that again improves the situation is that there are less impacts at lower speed. So not only are you less likely to be injured you are a lot less likely to be hit.

I really struggle to understand why people have a problem with lower speed limits.
 
Thank you, it's taken quite a bit of back and forth so I can understand your viewpoint.

I just don't agree with it. I feel I have have to live with the world, the world doesn't have to live with me.

I don't think it's selfish to drive past someone's house at the posted limit. It would be selfish to drive through their garden or driveway at the national speed limit.

I wouldn't call the road outside my house my "safe place" that's why I stop and look both ways and listen before I leave my driveway, whether by car, cycle or foot.
Living with something that has been propagated for the benifit of one mode of transport is not something people should accept. Times change and people should too.

I guess you don’t have kids that walk to school, I used to, that’s what I mean by a safe space. As per a previous comment. The number of cars and the danger they present is one of the driving factors for more and bigger cars.

We don’t need to agree. I’m happy that we both see the others position.
 
Engine braking and applying the car brakes firmly but not harshly. Clearly a concept you fail to understand but why would I be surprised at that.
Going too fast. Clearly a concept you fail to understand but why would I be surprised at that?
 
Living with something that has been propagated for the benifit of one mode of transport is not something people should accept. Times change and people should too.
I don't look at it like roads were made for motor vehicles and they are the enemy of cyclists, pedestrians and equestrians.
I look at it like motor vehicles, light and heavy are, have been and hopefully will continue to be of immense benefit to us all.

If there is a particular spot that would benefit from a speed limit that's ok by me but to put a blanket 20 mph limit on a any and all roads with residences or businesses or every country lane without a white line is way OTT

We all should try to get along. I enjoy cycling with my dog. I don't do it in the town centre and complain about the traffic.
I understand some people love horses but I can't see a necessity to ride them in a busy traffic area, it's just not prudent. And why is there no legislation requiring riders to clear up the massive piles of dodo there mounts leave behind? forgive me I digress.
I guess you don’t have kids that walk to school, I used to,
I used to as well. When they were small their mother accompanied them.
She taught them that most other road users were bigger and tougher than they were and to be very careful.

As per a previous comment. The number of cars and the danger they present is one of the driving factors for more and bigger cars.
I don't understand what that means.
We don’t need to agree. I’m happy that we both see the others position.
Same here.
 
The bit where the village is is 30mph but all the roads leading to the village are national limit and single track as mentioned. A lot of people walk between the surrounding villages because we have a shop and post office. Those people are often confronted by a car coming around a corner at significant speed. People often have to jump in to the hedge. That should not be needed.
So you mean yes then but you don’t like other people using your roads?
 
So you mean yes then but you don’t like other people using your roads?
I have no issue with other people using the road that’s what it’s there for. I do take great offence at the lack of respect many drivers show to the law and other road users.

As an example we have a weak bridge in the village. We also have several quarries in the area. We now have temporary concrete barriers to stop lorrys from going over the bridge. They were incapable of obeying the signage as it added a mile to their journey. Too many look at signs, including speed limits and just do what is most convenient for themselves.
 
I have no issue with other people using the road that’s what it’s there for. I do take great offence at the lack of respect many drivers show to the law and other road users.

As an example we have a weak bridge in the village. We also have several quarries in the area. We now have temporary concrete barriers to stop lorrys from going over the bridge. They were incapable of obeying the signage as it added a mile to their journey. Too many look at signs, including speed limits and just do what is most convenient for themselves.
Kudos to you for your law abiding stance nothing to do with people using the roads in a perfectly law abiding manner within the set speed limits though?
 
Kudos to you for your law abiding stance nothing to do with people using the roads in a perfectly law abiding manner within the set speed limits though?
If the speedlimit is 60 then your perfectly entitled to go for it if it is safe to do so. My problem is simply that the speedlimits are to high for a lot of situations and having driven in Cardiff last week the experience was an order of magnitude better that it was before the 20 mph limit was introduced. Even walking along a pavement in the town was better as the cars didn't feel like they were bearing down on you. Surprisingly there was much better filtering etiquette, as people were going slow enough to let someone out with out them "getting in their way". I actually had a smoother drive, and possibly quicker, going from the motorway to my daughters house. Generally it seemed like all good and no bad in the change. I would like to see that in a lot more areas.
 
If the speedlimit is 60 then your perfectly entitled to go for it if it is safe to do so. My problem is simply that the speedlimits are to high for a lot of situations and having driven in Cardiff last week the experience was an order of magnitude better that it was before the 20 mph limit was introduced. Even walking along a pavement in the town was better as the cars didn't feel like they were bearing down on you. Surprisingly there was much better filtering etiquette, as people were going slow enough to let someone out with out them "getting in their way". I actually had a smoother drive, and possibly quicker, going from the motorway to my daughters house. Generally it seemed like all good and no bad in the change. I would like to see that in a lot more areas.
Sounds quite idyllic but can you tell me..before you went on this trip did you know you would be in an area with a blanket 20mph speed limit?😂
 
Apparently (* no idea where the research was, take with a pinch of salt) more than 90% of people think their driving is above average. If that is true then it means that 40% of drivers seriously over-estimate their (relative) abilities.
Who here thinks that there driving is below average? I will put my hand up to 'about average, decreasing with age'.
If being better than the average driver was simply to have less than the average number of penalty points, then 93.5% would be better than average!

https://choosemycar.com/resources/c...on drivers in,each on their driving licences.
apparently one bloke has 66 !
 
When I learned my grangfather told 45mph was fast enough for anyone. He drove at 45mph everywhere, in the middle lane on motorways, around roundabouts, through the main street ...
 
Going too fast. Clearly a concept you fail to understand but why would I be surprised at that?
Nope, overtook at 60mph within the speed limit and had I braked just a little bity harder would not have been 4mph over at the 30mph signs. Already held my hands up for that and took the punishment. As you previously admitted to having attended a speed awareness course then you clearly broke the speed limit and were caught on at least one occasion. :sneaky:
 
Nope, overtook at 60mph within the speed limit and had I braked just a little bity harder would not have been 4mph over at the 30mph signs.
That's called speeding. Doing 34 in a 30 limit. Though 36 seems to be the decider as a rule, are you sure it was 34? :unsure:
Already held my hands up for that and took the punishment. As you previously admitted to having attended a speed awareness course then you clearly broke the speed limit and were caught on at least one occasion. :sneaky:
Yes, and haven't bothered to make up feeble excuses!
 
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Nope, overtook at 60mph within the speed limit and had I braked just a little bity harder would not have been 4mph over at the 30mph signs.
overtaking somone just before a built up area then braking to the speed limit - lol
 
It's clear that many on this forum, like the majority of drivers in general forget that a speed limit is just that - a 'limit' - not a 'target'. It's the maximum speed at which you can drive if road conditions permit - traffic levels, weather, street lighting, other road users, and it assumes that you position your vehicle correctly - stopping/thinking distance, giving clearance to other users (eg 1.5 Metres if passing cyclists), 'reading the road ahead' (EG not speeding up when traffic lights are on green to try to 'beat the lights' and cross on amber (amber means 'stop unless it's not safe to do so' - it doesn't mean 'go' if the lights haven't turned red.

Last night I drove 40 miles from Selby to Hull along narrow winding country roads at 10PM in the dark and the rain. Single carriageway road, max limit 60MPH, interspersed with 40 & 30 through villages, including over humped back bridges. At no time was it safe to drive at these speeds in the dark, and along the road in the rain. There were several 'wild animal' warning signs, (proof of which was a dead muntjac deer and badger at the side of the road along the journey.

Of oncoming cars, they had lights on full beam and didn't dip them - didn't have time - going too fast when my car came into view (at 70MPH, 15 sec = 0.3 miles). Even if they'd have stuck to the speed limits they'd have been unsafe, given the conditions, but they were clearly exceeding the speed limit. Of those that overtook me, likewise - 70 to 80MPH, brake lights going on at the last minute on tight zig-zag bends, hurtling through villages in excess of 60MPH, never mind about 40 or 30.

Where drivers couldn't overtake because the road was too narrow or too bendy, they were driving far too close if I'd had to brake. Clearly waiting for the chance to 'go for it'. Double white lines? 'Now't coming - give it some wellie'). I guess at that time, some could have also been OPL).

Why do they do this? Because they can, due to lack of speed enforcement, and mile after they do, with apparent impunity till eventually they get caught, and get very uptight about it. Speeding is endemic, yet of 41 million drivers in the UK, only 6.5% have point on their licence. Bear in mind that points stay on the licence for either four or eleven years depending on the nature of the offence, because points relate to many more offences than merely speeding. Its entirely fallacious to conclude that if only 6.5% of drivers have points, therefore, 93.5% are law abiding motorists. As we've seen in this thread, many who get caught don't consider themselves 'offenders' but as 'oppressed victims'.

(Nothing will change, when the headlines scream 'war on motorists' and refer to vociferous politicians who don't support lower speed limits or better enforcement as 'motorists' friends').
 
Good news from the party conference. The lads will be pleased!
That's the new welsh flag at the bottom, in case you haven't recognised it.

ulez private eye.JPG
 
That's called speeding. Doing 34 in a 30 limit. Though 36 seems to be the decider as a rule, are you sure it was 34? :unsure:

Yes, and haven't bothered to make up feeble excuses!
The feeblest excuse ever was someone who said his pet canary had escaped in the car and he spotted it hiding under the brake pedal just as he came to a 30 sign!
 
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