Spear & Jackson's "Spearior 52"?

[J_SAMa]

I found this on ebay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14-Brass-back ... 56578478f9
It looks relatively new. One of the pictures show that it's stamped "Spearior 52". What does that mean? Also around what period of time was this produced? the handle seems to suggest it's post-WWII? Is it worth buying at all?

Also this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-tenon ... 19de0496dc
I've never heard of "bowden" before. Seller says it's manufactured by "W.A.Tyzack". I've heard of "William Tyzack" and "Joseph Tyzack" but never "W.A.Tyzack". How are they all associated?

Sam

 

[Jacob]

The S&J is top notch. I've got one, they are very good. Go for it.

The other looks a bit old and tatty, Steel backed is OK but not fashionable. I wouldn't bother, there'll be better ones along in no time! Also it's been cleaned up and sharpened - something I would avoid, I'd rather do it myself and see the original condition first.
Or to put it another way - if it was a car boot I'd probably not touch it at £1. I'd buy a bacon cob instead. Or some red cabbage seedlings.

 

[G S Haydon]

Hi J-Sam

I would like to think the "Spearior" is a melding of "Spear & Jackson" & "Superior". Ah marketing

Both look fine, the S&J has a less inviting handle than the Tyzak but it does have a nice shiny brass back that add a bit more weight. I don't think you would go wrong with either of them. Just for the shape of the handle I would be tempted by the Tyzak.

If you don't like them, no stress, right back on the bay.

 

[J_SAMa]

Just lost the bidding on the S&J saw.
What about this one?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14-Steel-back ... 51ae855397
Never heard of Ibbotson before and google can't help me either

Sam

 

[G S Haydon]

Hi J-Sama

I feel your pain. I missed a near perfect wooden Jack plane on ebay last night. It went for 99p .

This saw is also good, as Jacob pointed out a brass backed saw is nicer although perhaps not essential. If only it would stay at 99p.

 

[MIGNAL]

Hi J-Sama

I feel your pain. I missed a near perfect wooden Jack plane on ebay last night. It went for 99p .

This saw is also good, as Jacob pointed out a brass backed saw is nicer although perhaps not essential. If only it would stay at 99p.

Fool!!! Should have told me about it.
Steel back are perfectly fine. I have a veritas which is some sort of powdered steel in plastic. . . something like that. Anyway, most of the saw is in the sharpening. Just make sure the plate is straight, no missing teeth and not too badly pitted. Fancy nicely cut handles are a bonus, usually found on the older saws.

 

[G S Haydon]

Mignal I am still really pis@?d about it :evil:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ward-payne-wo ... true&rt=nc

Most others are £20+ delivery for very average example.

 

[Jacob]

Just lost the bidding on the S&J saw.
What about this one?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14-Steel-back ... 51ae855397
Never heard of Ibbotson before and google can't help me either

Sam

Looks OK to me.
NB If you post them up here you might just be attracting more bids - I put £19 on the S&J! Keep them to yourself and show us after the sale, perhaps.
There isn't that much difference between the brands (unless you are a collector) so you want to watch out for things like the amount of blade left (OK on this one , better on the S&J that went).

 

[J_SAMa]

Looks OK to me.
NB If you post them up here you might just be attracting more bids - I put £19 on the S&J! Keep them to yourself and show us after the sale, perhaps.
There isn't that much difference between the brands (unless you are a collector) so you want to watch out for things like the amount of blade left (OK on this one , better on the S&J that went).

The reason I'm posting here is I don't want to risk buying bad tools. Any criteria for me to quickly judge if a tenon saw is good? Actually, how do I date a saw? If I'm not mistaken then saws are just like planes, the later they are the worse they get (unless they are modern "premium" brands)...

Sam

 

[dm65]

If I'm not mistaken then saws are just like planes, the later they are the worse they get (unless they are modern "premium" brands)...

Its all relative Sam, you can easily buy old rubbish as well so you do right to ask

What we find now on ebay etc for a couple of pounds now used to cost at least a weeks wages back when they were new (the good stuff anyway)

Like for like, we'd be buying Clifton or Lie Nielson planes and these could be sold on holobay in 50 years time

 

[G S Haydon]

+1 dm65,

J_SAMa Perhaps PM forum members in the future if there is the risk of having the rug pulled from under you. Just so you know I'm not after a tenon saw ;-)

 

[Jacob]

.....
The reason I'm posting here is I don't want to risk buying bad tools. Any criteria for me to quickly judge if a tenon saw is good? Actually, how do I date a saw? If I'm not mistaken then saws are just like planes, the later they are the worse they get (unless they are modern "premium" brands)...

Sam

Saws aren't like planes, they are much simpler. The main difference old/new is in the handles. Old ones are much nicer, curly and decorative with flush nuts/bolt heads. Some modern ones are hideous such as the Atkinson Walker purple plank handled one I bought some time back!
I'd ignore older ones - there is a risk that the blades are bent, rust etc. Maybe just set a simple target - another S&J like the one you missed. One of each, 10", 12", 14", make sure there is plenty of blade left and they aren't too rusty. They have modern handles but are perfectly functional. Sometimes very cheap - take the risk, if it's not good it'll do for sharpening practice.

PS the biggest difference between any two similar saws will be down to whoever used/sharpened it last. Very useful (essential) to do your own (eventually) and this is well covered by Sellers book which is another good reason for buying it. I'm not promoting it BTW - nothing in it for me!

 

[woodbrains]

+1 dm65,

J_SAMa Perhaps PM forum members in the future if there is the risk of having the rug pulled from under you. Just so you know I'm not after a tenon saw ;-)

Hello,

I bought the Spear and Jackson saw we're talking about. Had been quietly watching it for days. And now I find Jacob was biding against me! For Pete's sake keep e bay to yourself or you and anyone else will be thwarted or have to pay over the odds.

I understand that you do not want to waste money on poor tools, but a generalised question usually generates better info. If you ask is Spear and Jackson a good brand, you will likely get dozens of answers about dates and when they were best and how to spot them. If you just show piccies of a saw, we are no wiser than you. It might have a bent plate that is not revealed on the photo or have been sharpened so badly it will take a week at the saw doctors to put right, if you are not comfortable doing it yourself. There is always a certain amount of risk with 2nd hand tools. This cuts both ways however (no pun here) and quite often a real unexpected gem can turn up to mitigate the odd basket case you might come across. If you want risk free, superb tools every time you buy the you will have to shell out on some of the better brands of new products. You wont regret that, either, as they will often get you to work with little or no fuss straight away and last a lifetime. If you want the fun of the auction and the anticipation of what will come in the post and don't mind getting a few rejects from which to learn from time to time, then do the auctions. There are no guarantees for any of us, though. And don't get upset when you are outbid, there will always be another saw, and another.... You will end up with too many!

Mike.

 

[G S Haydon]

" nothing in it for me!"

Worth the £30 quid then

 

[J_SAMa]

Is this kind of "rust" easy to remove? Does it need to be removed at all?

Sam

 

[dm65]

Rust can be removed many ways, elbow grease and wirewool, citric acid or even electrolitics

Bit of a rub may be enough if you're more for function over form, but those sides need to be smooth and slick so they don't cause binding which interferes with the cut

I feel some comment on those teeth is imminent

 

[Jacob]

.....
Is this kind of "rust" easy to remove? Does it need to be removed at all?

Sam

No need to remove it. If the saw is sharp and used it smooths itself in no time and won't bind at all. I always paint rusty old tools with linseed (half n half with turps) and just forget about them after that.
Bad pitting can be a prob as it may result in teeth snapping off when they are being set, but even this can be endured, within reason, if you are desperate!

 

[AndyT]

That rust does not look much at all from the photo and should be easy to remove with wet and dry paper - but if the set is fairly full it may not be a problem at all. It may help to run a candle along the saw, like you do with a plane.

As for the Tyzacks, they seem to be one of the best-researched toolmaking families. You'll find the answer to your question about WA Tyzack if you go to http://www.tyzack.net and download "The Book" - chapter 16.

 

[JohnPW]

Spear and Jackson saws have quite ugly blocky handles, IMO. I think only the reallly old ones (19th C) have the curvy sculpted type. That's why I think they tend to go for a lower price, which is good if you just want one to use. But if you're going to get a tool, you might as well get one that also looks nice, but you can't always have it all.

The S&J seller in the OP gets high prices because they have good photos and descriptions, and they post worldwide, and they don't sell junk. If you don't want to pay the high prices, you will need to take a chance on auction with poor photos and descriptions, which is what most auctions have.

Mignal I am still really pis@?d about it :evil:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ward-payne-wo ... true&rt=nc

Most others are £20+ delivery for very average example.

The final price was 99p but it doesn't mean you could've got it for £1.04 or some other low price. The winning bidder could have bid £10, £20 or any other amount. It's the second highest bidder that decides the final price, not the highest bidder. When you look at finished auctions, it's easy to think "what, that only went for £10!!??". But in actual fact, all you know is the second highest bidder made a bid of £9.50.

 

[Jacob]

Spear and Jackson saws have quite ugly blocky handles, IMO. I think only the reallly old ones (19th C) have the curvy sculpted type. ...

And there are in betweenieslike this one which has a modern handle but hasn't quite lost all the quirks and curves. You could always shape one a bit more ,if you really wanted to.