Spare a tear.

[Digit]

For the old 'uns amongst us, I see that the wreck of HMS Exeter has finally been located.

Roy.

 

[Rich]

Would this be the one sunk by the Japanese in 42?

Rich.

 

[Digit]

Yep. But most famously attacked the Graf Spee during the Battle of the River Plate. The Pathe News pictures of the day showed more holes in her upperworks than in a sieve.

Roy.

 

[Smudger]

From Wikipedia

At the outbreak of the Second World War, she formed part of the South American Division with Cumberland. Together with the Leander class light cruisers Ajax and Achilles she engaged the German pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee in the Battle of the River Plate on 13 December 1939, which action resulted in the scuttling of the Admiral Graf Spee several days later.
...
On February 27, 1942, she was damaged in the Battle of the Java Sea when she received a hit in the boiler room and was subsequently ordered to Surabaya. The destroyer HMS Electra was sunk covering her withdrawal. When she attempted to reach the Sunda Strait, she was intercepted by the Japanese cruisers Nachi and Haguro on the morning of 1 March 1942. The Second Battle of the Java Sea ensued and Exeter was soon badly damaged by gunfire and a torpedo from the destroyer Inazuma. She took on water and began listing to starboard. By noon she sank. Her escorting destroyers, HMS Encounter and USS Pope were also lost in this engagement. About 800 Allied seamen, including the commander of Exeter, Captain O. L. Gordon, became prisoners of war.

 

[Digit]

And the name continues with a Type 42 destroyer.

Roy.

 

[Travis]

A lot of good men and their equipment paid dearly for the freedom that so many people take for granted today!

I, for one, will not forget!!!!!!!!!

Travis

 

[jerryc]

Being a small kid at the time of River Plate battle I can still remember a photo in (I think) the Daily Mirror of Exeter's damage.

Lots of ships being located at the moment. Here in Oz the biggest mystery was the loss of the HMAS Sydney. Disappeared after an engagement with German ship Kormorant with all 600 or so crew lost. Has just been found off West Australian coast and memorial service held.

Jerry

War does not decide who is right. War only decides who is left.

 

[Digit]

I, for one, will not forget!!!!!!!!!

Me likewise. I utterly detest the current trend in Europe where your country is blamed for everything that goes wrong and the sacrifices that your country made to give them the chance to blame you is ignored!
Much 'glory' was rubbish, the sinking of Bismark was a case in point. The Royal Navy ceased fire so that the crew could abandon, they didn't and the ship was sunk with the majority of her crew, a pointless and unnecessary loss of life.
For true gallantry at sea read about Ohio!

 

[Rich]

Iv'e just read up on the "Ohio" an it's an incredible account of human strength and fortitude, if the police think they have a dangerous job they ought to read this, we have a lot to thank the senior service and merchantmen for.

regards,
Rich.

 

[Digit]

People sometimes play 'war games' Rich and re-run old battles. Wars are not won, they are lost by those who make the most mistakes. Once Hitler declared war on America as well as Russia Germany was doomed.
Malta was essential to the allied efforts in North Africa and the middle east. If Malta had fallen, and Germany did intend invading at one time, we would have lost the oil from Iran and Iraq and been forced out of the Med.
The Battle of Britain prevented our being invaded, we could still have lost the war, if Germany, having thrown us out of the Med had then turned again on us, at the rate she was building U Boats, we would probably have had to accept terms from Hitler.
Had that happened American aid to Russia from the west would have ceased and America would have lost her 'unsinkable aircraft carrier'.
We will never know how accurate that scenario would have been, but it never happened, all because of the men aboard the Ohio!
The captain was awarded the George Cross.
After the Ohio docked she was again subjected to almost continuous attacks by the Luftwaffe, but the discharging of her cargo continued non-stop,
the Maltese earned their George Cross as well.

 

[lurker]

Hey Digit,

Is this just an interest of yours or are you an old salt (as well as an old git :-# ) :lol:

 

[Digit]

I'm an old git and a history buff, also I'm old enough to remember the tail end of WW2 and that which followed, and I carry the scars from a V2.
Tends to make you rather interested. :lol:

Roy.

 

[woodbloke]

Digit wrote:

Had that happened American aid to Russia from the west would have ceased and America would have lost her 'unsinkable aircraft carrier'

Thank God that scenario never happened and Hitler never offered terms. What is generally less well known is that if the UK had ever capitulated, then the war would have been carried to Nazi Germany by the Americans using the B29 Superfortress (Enola Gay being the best known one) flying from the mainland of the USA, the role it was originally designed for. Happily, that never happened and the B29's laid waste to Japan instead - Rob

 

[lurker]

A few years back I was researching t'internet for info about the Royal Oak (scapa flow etc) - My uncle went down on that.
I found an old chap who was one of the few survivors (well into his 90s) and had a number of interesting e-mail conversations with him over about 2 years.

I went to the Orkney to visit the site & memorials: took lots of photos to show the old boy during a visit I had planned, but unfortunately he died before I could get over to see him. I am still in touch with his son.

 

[Digit]

As you say Bob the B29 was designed to attack Germany, as was the atomic bomb!
Had Britain fallen it perhaps questionable as to whether America would have concerned herself with the European theatre, it wasn't a popular war with many Americans at the time.
Also it should be remembered that if we had been forced out of the war in mid '42 the strategic bombing of Germany would have ceased.
The B29 didn't really come into its own until late '44, would America have diverted the bomber from the pacific theatre at that time?
Either way, the Luftwaffe would have had jet fighters capable of dealing with the B29 by the time that America was able to deploy them.
With us out Germany would have had probably beaten Russia, recent documents show that the Russians were prepared to give up their western lands in return for peace with Germany.
The only way that America could have stopped Germany under those conditions would have been to use the atomic bomb.

 

[woodbloke]

I thought that the A-bomb was designed to bomb Germany...wasn't too sure though. I agree that it would have been the only way for the USA to subdue the Nazis later on in the war but I shudder to think of the cost in lost aircraft and aircrew in flying from the USA to mainland Europe. As has also been said, the Nazis would have also have developed jet fighters easily capable of dealing with the B29's.
I'm grateful it never happened that way...too may if's, buts, whyfores and maybe's.
Interestingly, if you haven't read 'Fatherland' a fictional tale set in 1965 about a successful Nazi end to WW2, then I recommend it :wink: :shock: - Rob

 

[Digit]

Read it, seen the film, bought the tee shirt etc.
The original plans for the atomic bomb came from the Jewish emigres who worked out the nuts and bolts of it here in Britain as German refugees.
Their work was seen as so pointless that nobody bothered them, but instructions were given to keep them away from important 'secret' work, mainly Radar.
When scientists realised that the bomb could be made to work the two Germans were given immediate British citizenship and sent over to the states to continue their work there.
They offered two hand made bombs by the end of '41, if I remember correctly, but America and Britain didn't want just two, they wanted dozens.

Roy.

 

[StevieB]

Read it and seen the film, but as usual it has had its ending changed by Hollywood and not for the better. Stick to the book. There was a rumour it was changed becuase not enough Americans knew about the holocaust and Auschwitz to make sense of the books ending but I don't know if thats just urban myth or not.

steve.