Solid Walnut worktops - price for fitting????

[Karl]

Hi all

Hope somebody out there can give some guidance/experience.

I have been self employed for the last few years, primarily doing kitchen/bathroom re-fits.

An existing client has asked me to price up a kitchen re-fit (labour only). No problem. Except the worktops are to be solid Walnut - about £450 a length. 3 of them.

I recently made a b@lls of a piece of laminate worktop which cost me £80 for a new length (that's what you get for working when under the weather - lost my concentration!).

How do others approach pricing for such jobs - one slip with the router, circular saw, etc and the piece could be knackered - and i'm left with a £450 bill for a new length. Hypothetical, of course, but possible given my recent mistake. Do you simply charge a higher "daily" rate for fitting the 'tops (kind of self insurance)? Or another way.

Any help much appreciated - I have to go back to the client in a few days with a price, and don't want to get it wrong !

Cheers

Karl

 

[jasonB]

Include a contingency sum in your total quote to cover any unforeseen work, if you make a mistake you are covered, if you don't you will be better off

The sum can either be a percentage of the whole price or based on what you think may need to be covered say allow for 1days work or in your case the cost of a replacement top.

If the client asks for a breakdown of your quote proportion the contingency as required rather than listing it as a separate item in the quote otherwise they may come back to you at the end of the job and say as you did not use the contingency they don't want to pay it.

Jason

 

[Gary]

It seems rather unfair to charge a client for your mistakes when they think they are employing a professional and even more so to charge for any potential ones. Only to pocket the extra cash if you get it right first time which is what your being paid for. How would you feel if a main dealer charged the price of an engine rebuild on top of the cost of a timing belt in case they got it wrong on your car?

Just one way of looking at it but I may be wrong and have the forum gunning for me.

 

[cutting42]

An existing client has asked me to price up a kitchen re-fit (labour only). No problem. Except the worktops are to be solid Walnut - about £450 a length. 3 of them.

Any help much appreciated - I have to go back to the client in a few days with a price, and don't want to get it wrong !

Hi Karl

Mr Mitre charged my FiL £240 for a solid Oak worktop joint which also included a sink cutout, routered draining board slots and all fitting in a utility room. Did a cracking job with all Festool kit and took about 2.5 hrs. Their website should give you an idea of top end charges.

http://www.mrmitre.co.uk/

HTH

 

[Waka]

Gary

I'm with you on this one, seems unethical to charge the customer for any potential mistakes you make.

 

[Karl]

Thanks for the replies guys.

To date I have never charged extra as a contingency for mistakes - and up till last week, I hadn't made one.

But surely, with extra expensive materials comes a higher fitting cost? Risk/reward ratio? The analogy of the timing belt is interesting. I'm sure that garages do factor in an element of "self insurance" in case they have any problems with work they do. I doubt whether you are simply charged for the actual labour cost of doing the work - at the very least you will be paying for a more senior mechanic to do the work rather than the ordinary guy who does the oil change - surely the same thing as I am talking about?

That Mr Mitre link was v useful - cheers.

Karl

 

[9fingers]

Hi Karl,

I work in a completely different industrybut we still have to manage risk in our estimates and adding up the worst case and piling on the quote would soon mean we were losing tenders.
We look at the probability of each risk occurring and also reckon that we won't be that unlucky to have more than a few of the risks turn round and bite us.

SO if you have done loads of worktops before and only written one off and it only went wrong because you were unwell then you might say there was only a 10% chance of it happening on this job. If you add on 10% to this job and all your jobs then you will start to build up a pot with which to pay out for the odd disasters.
Yes if you make a mistake then it will hurt a bit to start with but over time the pot will take the strain.

HTH

Bob

 

[Karl]

Hi Bob

Thanks for the input.

That was really what I was concluding to do - and will do from now on. I have just been chatting it over with SWMBO, and we agreed that you wouldn't expect to pay the same price for a service if one of those services carried a greater risk with it.

Thankfully I have been "incident" free for the last 3 years, barring the incident referred to in my OP. And when i've fitted solid wood worktops in the past, I haven't given it a second thought. But after my recent accident, I began to think about the "what if's", especially with such expensive materials. I work on my own, and for myself, so a £450 "accident" is a big deal!

Cheers - my mind is a lot clearer now.

Karl

 

[Digit]

Be careful that you don't let one mistake destroy your confidence, they happen to all of us and any industry has to price accordingly. Not costing for them may make you cheaper than the opposition, but if you go out of business no one wins!

Roy.

 

[Andy Pullen]

It seems rather unfair to charge a client for your mistakes when they think they are employing a professional and even more so to charge for any potential ones. Only to pocket the extra cash if you get it right first time which is what your being paid for. How would you feel if a main dealer charged the price of an engine rebuild on top of the cost of a timing belt in case they got it wrong on your car?

Just one way of looking at it but I may be wrong and have the forum gunning for me.

IME, whatever you do things will go wrong sometimes and IMO why should I take a risk charging standard rates for hugely expensive materials that need comprehensive fitting. What most firms do is supply the stuff and have a huge mark up. If I am doing the customer a favour by letting him supply it himself hence saving himself a fortune then I will explain that I expect him to carry the risk. I don't need a days work that bad that I am prepared to potentially lose a weeks income over it. Let that customer find another mug.

 

[Waka]

IME, whatever you do things will go wrong sometimes and IMO why should I take a risk charging standard rates for hugely expensive materials that need comprehensive fitting. What most firms do is supply the stuff and have a huge mark up. If I am doing the customer a favour by letting him supply it himself hence saving himself a fortune then I will explain that I expect him to carry the risk. I don't need a days work that bad that I am prepared to potentially lose a weeks income over it. Let that customer find another mug.

I fail to see the difference between a standard worktop and an expensive hardwood worktop, they both require comprehensive fitting. If I read you correctly you are saying that because the material you are fitting is expensive you should charge more. Surely the method of fitting a worktop in this house is the same, whether it be expensive or not. I could agree that the expensive material may require longer to fit. But I don't understand why I should pay a greater hourly/daily rate.

Should I employ a professional to carry out work, and a mistake is made then thats down to the professional.

 

[Andy Pullen]

A lot of firms wont even entertain you unless they are fitting their own stuff and this is because they have a damned good mark up on it. Why should a one man band risk his wages on a high value job when there is no financial benefit to him. In this case the only real winner is the customer who has got some poor mug to carry his risk.
If I fit supplied materials it is on the basis that the customer replace any cock ups, though it rarely if ever happens but the customer must understand why at least or just let me supply it myself with a sufficient markup that in time a cock up is affordable anyway.
I wonder how many cock-ups occur when say building a house, probably lots of little ones but the builder still expects to turn a good profit and a margin is built in for this.

 

[Tom K]

Hi Karl, first off no garages don't charge a contingency but the mechanic must be competent to do the work at hand. If the person repairing the cambelt does the job wrong he is at fault and liable.Some garages carry insurance for this others carry the cost themselves. Obviously you must be paid enough to cover your expenses wether they are insurance premiums or putting money by for mistakes illness etc. and you most certainly don't get Rolls Royce money for Ford Fiesta work but that works both ways. These things usually balance themselves out and high end products normally take a little extra time and care to fit and need to be fitted by a person willing to go the extra mile that is what justifys the extra expense of hiring a Craftsman as opposed to a Handyman.

Regards Tom

 

[Digit]

In the hard headed world of business I have to agree with Andy. I was not infrequently asked to fit stuff to domestic appliances that I did not supply. I agreed, but on the basis that there was no guarantee, as I did not know the source of the supplied parts and could not get a replacement from my supplier if the part failed.

Roy.

 

[Andy Pullen]

Hi Karl, first off no garages don't charge a contingency but the mechanic must be competent to do the work at hand. If the person repairing the cambelt does the job wrong he is at fault and liable.Some garages carry insurance for this others carry the cost themselves. Obviously you must be paid enough to cover your expenses wether they are insurance premiums or putting money by for mistakes illness etc. and you most certainly don't get Rolls Royce money for Ford Fiesta work but that works both ways. These things usually balance themselves out and high end products normally take a little extra time and care to fit and need to be fitted by a person willing to go the extra mile that is what justifys the extra expense of hiring a Craftsman as opposed to a Handyman.

Regards Tom

When garages charge £35 for a gallon of oil and £60 an hour to put it in, please don't tell me they don't charge a contingency.

 

[Tom K]

I suggest you try buying some decent oil retail and try paying the overheads on a decent sized workshop. Cars don't stack as neatly as timber :lol:

Regards Tom

 

[Andy Pullen]

Dont need to just go to qwikfit over the road and get it done for £25 all in. Their contingencies are smaller :wink:

 

[Andy Pullen]

There are seemingly two schools of thought here. Those who opinion is based on what they would like to pay as a customer and those whose opinion is based on what they would like to earn as a tradesman. Experience tells me to behave the way I do in this situation.

 

[Tom K]

So Andy,

Dont need to just go to qwikfit over the road and get it done for £25 all in. Their contingencies are smaller

• i. Where did the first price come from.
  ii. Do you not consider Kwik Fit a garage.
  iii.Does your vehicle rattle in the mornings.
  D.Do you not like losing arguments
  iiii. What was the question

Regards Tom

 

[Tom K]

Andy, in my long winded way I was saying if you are good at your job you should earn enough to either carry insurance or be able to cover the cost of a cock up. If the fault is yours for example fag smoke is getting in your eyes as your route lumps out of an expensive worktop then you have to hold your hands up. If on the other hand you are supplied rubbish by a customer to fit and lumps fall off it then that is their fault.

Regards Tom