So, isn't it about time the rights of a consumer were upgraded in law?

[Sideways]

"Nearly all manufacturers charge a call out fee even if you have a guarantee. However if your goods are less than 6 years old and the defect is a manufacturing defect you should be able to get the fee waived once the fault is established. Sometimes it is impossible to identify what the fault is without paying for a call out fee. Make it clear to whoever you pay that you reserve the right to demand a refund of the fee if the fault is not your doing.

You should know

• When you purchase a product from a retailer you have a contract with them. You do not normally have a claim against the manufacturer unless you have been supplied a manufacturer's guarantee with the product.
• The retailer should not refuse to deal with you if you have a valid complaint and should not refer you to the manufacturer within the first six months of purchase
• If your manufacturers guarantee has expired you may still be able to claim from the retailer for faulty goods
• Some manufacturers charge a call out fee but will refund if the item is found to have a manufacturing defect
• You do not have to buy and extended warranty to have rights for a repair up to six years after purchase
• If the manufacturer ceases to trade you do not have a claim against the retailer who sold you the goods.
• If you paid by credit card and the amount was more than £100 and less than £30,000, the credit card company may be partly responsible for compensating you "

AND

"What rights do I have under statute?​

Even if you do not have a warranty over goods which you have purchased, you still have statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA 2015).

If goods bought from a retailer aren’t of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described, you have the right to return them and get a full refund within 30 days of purchase

Within six months of purchase, it’s up to the retailer to prove that you caused the problem with the goods: if they can’t, they’ll have to repair or replace the goods or give you a refund if that’s not possible.

After this initial six-month period, you will have to prove that any faults are not down to misuse of the product or general wear and tear. This might require you to obtain an expert report, opinion or evidence of similar problems across the product range. Factors such as the price, the specification/model of the goods, the length of time you’ve had the goods and the length of time which they should last will all be considerations.

If all else fails, you have six years from when you bought the faulty goods to take a claim to the small claims court and reclaim the cost of repair of the product.

What if my warranty has run out?​

If a warranty in relation to goods you have bought has run out, this will have no effect on your statutory rights under CRA 2015, meaning a retailer cannot refuse to provide you with a repair simply because the warranty has expired."

 

[plum60]

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that man's lawful prey."


I wonder why the same thing didn't happen in Germany?

After the second world war German industry had to start afresh with new machinery etc because a lot of it was destroyed whereas in the UK machines were fixed maintained and continued to be used. Industrialists says this gave the uk a disadvantage along with the fact that uk industrial workforce was largely unskilled and had a tendency to phone in sick too many times ( with hangovers no doubt) which made employers at British steel and many allied industries cry and die in a competitive market place. There was the old joke about having a dog in the factory to guard the machine from the man and the channel tunnel digging being too slow on the uk side because the workers said they were waiting for the skip - funny but kind of true too. Mind you generally I think bosses were abusing workers for more than decades which help to create resentment bloody mindedness and a failure culture in uk manufacturing.

 

[plum60]

If you eat meat then what is wrong with eating horse, dog or donkey as they are all meat, as a vegetarian we eat alll vegetables and don't differentiate between a carrot and a sweet potatoe so really carnivores should eat anything that can be classed as meat.

Well we are animals so we are meat. In that respect why not eat dead humans then, recycle them? When you think about it lots of animals die from diseases, cancer etc so it's dodgy eating some of them isn't it but they still don't check it and fill your sausage with it so then you eat it I expect? They fill live stock with so many drugs now - anti biotics and stuff to prevent all the soil born insect born diseases and then you eat them so not sure it's wise in the end. I'm sticking to slightly safer non factory farming stuff and hoping for a longer spell on the planet myself. All the cancer research people don't eat red meat any more I've seen on the BBC health programme.

 

[Kittyhawk]

I ate donkey stew once in Italy.

Jolly nice it was too.

And I've eaten more than my fair share of whale meat. Not bad if your idea of fine fare is sponge rubber marinated in used engine oil.

 

[Jacob]

I suspect it’s more a case of consumers not realising that this is already enshrined in law …

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

and post Brexit bits of consumer law will end up in the bonfire of the regulations.

 

[johna.clements]

After the second world war German industry had to start afresh with new machinery etc because a lot of it was destroyed whereas in the UK machines were fixed maintained and continued to be used. Industrialists says this gave the uk a disadvantage along with the fact that uk industrial workforce was largely unskilled and had a tendency to phone in sick too many times ( with hangovers no doubt) which made employers at British steel and many allied industries cry and die in a competitive market place. There was the old joke about having a dog in the factory to guard the machine from the man and the channel tunnel digging being too slow on the uk side because the workers said they were waiting for the skip - funny but kind of true too. Mind you generally I think bosses were abusing workers for more than decades which help to create resentment bloody mindedness and a failure culture in uk manufacturing.

Germany appears to have far higher shop floor involvement in industry. The workers normally know the best way of doing a job and if they are listened too will reduce costs and time. In the UK they bring in management consultants who talk to the workers and then present the ideas to management and collect a handsome fee.

The management is also more likely to be trained in the field that the industry is involved in which gives them an understanding of the problems. It is harder for a manager to understand what is going on if they have little understanding of the processes. Engineers and craft/ trade appear to be more regarded in Germany which will help them to be listened too. As a civil engineer in the UK many people think that I dug holes beside the road. They call the washing machine repair person an engineer when in fact they are a technician and could know more about the repair of washing machines than a mechanical engineer but little about the design.

 

[johna.clements]

and post Brexit bits of consumer law will end up in the bonfire of the regulations.

bring back lead paint on children's toys and mattresses that catch fire.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

We have a society in which just about ALL have a right to exercise (legal) individual freedoms irrespective of education, competence, etc. We also seek to protect (rightly) those who are judged unable to make rational balanced decisions- mainly the young.

Yet many adults are incapable of exercising judgement or behaving responsibly - alternatives:

• ensure that rights are earned only through demonstrating competence - exams etc.
• extensive additional legislation ensuring those enabling freedoms do so responsibly
• continue much as now - legislation covering gross abuses, personal responsibility for ones own actions and behaviour.

The first, however rational, would not sit comfortably with civil rights and personal freedom lobbies.
The second requires the implausible goal of legislating for every possible abuse in a society where pursuit of blame, often for financial gain, means legislation will never cover all contingencies.

The third is a balance between personal responsibility and corporate/government abuse. If folk want personal freedom, they need to take some responsibility in its exercise.

 

[Jacob]

......

Yet many adults are incapable of exercising judgement or behaving responsibly - alternatives:

• ensure that rights are earned only through demonstrating competence - exams etc.
• extensive additional legislation ensuring those enabling freedoms do so responsibly
• continue much as now - legislation covering gross abuses, personal responsibility for ones own actions and behaviour.

The first, however rational, would not sit comfortably with civil rights and personal freedom lobbies.

Spot on, most certainly would not! These are the people often most in need of rights, to protect them from exploitation of their inadequacies amongst other things.
It's an old and very dead idea along the lines of deserving and undeserving poor, with the "deserving" usually defining a very tiny group!
In any case "adults incapable of exercising judgement or behaving responsibly" are found in all walks of life, at the top of the political establishment, even royalty, so it would be a nonsense to ask them to demonstrate competence and pass appropriate exams! I guess you are thinking only in terms of the already underprivileged i.e. the undeserving poor.

 

[johna.clements]

It's an old and very dead idea along the lines of deserving and undeserving poor, with the "deserving" usually defining a very tiny group!

The deserving poor are the people like you; the undeserving are the rest.

 

[Just4Fun]

It is a pity that these conditions are not made clear at the point of sale.

I am rather stretching my memory here, but back in the 1980s on a management course we covered the unfair contract terms act. One example given was deck chair hire on a beach. The receipt, given after the customer paid the hire fee, limited the supplier's liability. There was a court case when a deck chair failed, causing injury. The terms on the ticket were ruled unfair because they were unknown until after the customer had paid. If that legislation is still in place this logic would seem to cover your case.

 

[Blackswanwood]

and post Brexit bits of consumer law will end up in the bonfire of the regulations.

Ah - the old Brexit chestnut! Best be careful this thread doesn’t get moved to the UKW Dark Web!

That may be the case but in the case of financial services the opposite is happening. A new regime of regulation called Consumer Duty is being brought in that strengthens the requirements around how consumers are protected. This goes far beyond the equivalent requirements in the EU. I doubt the UK will dumb down consumer protection however opinions may differ.

 

[Cocon]

"Nearly all manufacturers charge a call out fee even if you have a guarantee. However if your goods are less than 6 years old and the defect is a manufacturing defect you should be able to get the fee waived once the fault is established. Sometimes it is impossible to identify what the fault is without paying for a call out fee. Make it clear to whoever you pay that you reserve the right to demand a refund of the fee if the fault is not your doing.

You should know

• When you purchase a product from a retailer you have a contract with them. You do not normally have a claim against the manufacturer unless you have been supplied a manufacturer's guarantee with the product.
• The retailer should not refuse to deal with you if you have a valid complaint and should not refer you to the manufacturer within the first six months of purchase
• If your manufacturers guarantee has expired you may still be able to claim from the retailer for faulty goods
• Some manufacturers charge a call out fee but will refund if the item is found to have a manufacturing defect
• You do not have to buy and extended warranty to have rights for a repair up to six years after purchase
• If the manufacturer ceases to trade you do not have a claim against the retailer who sold you the goods.
• If you paid by credit card and the amount was more than £100 and less than £30,000, the credit card company may be partly responsible for compensating you "

AND

"What rights do I have under statute?​

Even if you do not have a warranty over goods which you have purchased, you still have statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA 2015).

If goods bought from a retailer aren’t of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described, you have the right to return them and get a full refund within 30 days of purchase

Within six months of purchase, it’s up to the retailer to prove that you caused the problem with the goods: if they can’t, they’ll have to repair or replace the goods or give you a refund if that’s not possible.

After this initial six-month period, you will have to prove that any faults are not down to misuse of the product or general wear and tear. This might require you to obtain an expert report, opinion or evidence of similar problems across the product range. Factors such as the price, the specification/model of the goods, the length of time you’ve had the goods and the length of time which they should last will all be considerations.

If all else fails, you have six years from when you bought the faulty goods to take a claim to the small claims court and reclaim the cost of repair of the product.

What if my warranty has run out?​

If a warranty in relation to goods you have bought has run out, this will have no effect on your statutory rights under CRA 2015, meaning a retailer cannot refuse to provide you with a repair simply because the warranty has expired."

Thank you for this information I will retain it for future reference as I am also in the process of returning a pressure washer, which is being repared under warrenty after two hours use! If it breaks down again I think I would want a refund and go to find an alternative make.
Thank you, Cocon

 

[Jake]

The deserving poor are the people like you; the undeserving are the rest.

I think that's a 'oneself' kind of 'you' not a Jacob kind of you, so true. Much like common sense = what 'I' think not having thought about it much.

 

[Fergie 307]

world beating cars

Please reassure me that was a joke

 

[Fergie 307]

"Nearly all manufacturers charge a call out fee even if you have a guarantee. However if your goods are less than 6 years old and the defect is a manufacturing defect you should be able to get the fee waived once the fault is established. Sometimes it is impossible to identify what the fault is without paying for a call out fee. Make it clear to whoever you pay that you reserve the right to demand a refund of the fee if the fault is not your doing.

You should know

• When you purchase a product from a retailer you have a contract with them. You do not normally have a claim against the manufacturer unless you have been supplied a manufacturer's guarantee with the product.
• The retailer should not refuse to deal with you if you have a valid complaint and should not refer you to the manufacturer within the first six months of purchase
• If your manufacturers guarantee has expired you may still be able to claim from the retailer for faulty goods
• Some manufacturers charge a call out fee but will refund if the item is found to have a manufacturing defect
• You do not have to buy and extended warranty to have rights for a repair up to six years after purchase
• If the manufacturer ceases to trade you do not have a claim against the retailer who sold you the goods.
• If you paid by credit card and the amount was more than £100 and less than £30,000, the credit card company may be partly responsible for compensating you "

AND

"What rights do I have under statute?​

Even if you do not have a warranty over goods which you have purchased, you still have statutory rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA 2015).

If goods bought from a retailer aren’t of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described, you have the right to return them and get a full refund within 30 days of purchase

Within six months of purchase, it’s up to the retailer to prove that you caused the problem with the goods: if they can’t, they’ll have to repair or replace the goods or give you a refund if that’s not possible.

After this initial six-month period, you will have to prove that any faults are not down to misuse of the product or general wear and tear. This might require you to obtain an expert report, opinion or evidence of similar problems across the product range. Factors such as the price, the specification/model of the goods, the length of time you’ve had the goods and the length of time which they should last will all be considerations.

If all else fails, you have six years from when you bought the faulty goods to take a claim to the small claims court and reclaim the cost of repair of the product.

What if my warranty has run out?​

If a warranty in relation to goods you have bought has run out, this will have no effect on your statutory rights under CRA 2015, meaning a retailer cannot refuse to provide you with a repair simply because the warranty has expired."

I would agree. Existing legislation is actually pretty comprehensive. Making use of it can sometimes be a PITA, however if you stick to your guns you will get there in the end, assuming of course that you have a valid case in the first place. Can be a long and frustrating process though. One of the most common issues is that you buy say a Bosch drill from B and Q and it fails, they will often tell you that you need to contact Bosch. This is wrong, generally your consumer rights are concerned with the seller of the goods, irrespective of the actual manufacturer. In this instance if B and Q have sold you something which is defective the onus is on them to address the issue. Of course if they can get you to contact Bosch and get them to replace it under warranty or whatever, then that doesnt cost B and Q anything, hence the incentive to do that.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

And I've eaten more than my fair share of whale meat. Not bad if your idea of fine fare is sponge rubber marinated in used engine oil.

Ah ............. so you've eaten Kiwi sausages?

 

[Rich_D]

Germany appears to have far higher shop floor involvement in industry. The workers normally know the best way of doing a job and if they are listened too will reduce costs and time. In the UK they bring in management consultants who talk to the workers and then present the ideas to management and collect a handsome fee.

The management is also more likely to be trained in the field that the industry is involved in which gives them an understanding of the problems. It is harder for a manager to understand what is going on if they have little understanding of the processes. Engineers and craft/ trade appear to be more regarded in Germany which will help them to be listened too. As a civil engineer in the UK many people think that I dug holes beside the road. They call the washing machine repair person an engineer when in fact they are a technician and could know more about the repair of washing machines than a mechanical engineer but little about the design.

A lot of German manufacturing companies are family owned, they invest, plan and think long term unlike in the UK where the shareholders dividend is the top priority

 

[morqthana]

I am also in the process of returning a pressure washer, which is being repared under warrenty after two hours use! If it breaks down again I think I would want a refund and go to find an alternative make.

Mmmm - you might want to check that, if it's not too late. I might be wrong, but I think that if you opt for a repair you have forfeited your right to reject goods for being faulty. Try Citizens Advice and Consumer Association websites.

 

[morqthana]

A lot of German manufacturing companies are family owned, they invest, plan and think long term unlike in the UK where the shareholders dividend is the top priority

And at least one refuses to provide manuals to assist with self-repair and lies to its customers about why.