Small 12v drill/drivers

[frankendoodle65]

Thanks for all the comments everyone, there's too much to reply to everything but I'm trying to take everything on board and it's all been a great help.

@fleyh thanks for the Peter Parfitt link, that's very helpful and I'm starting to get my head around the centrotec stuff (despite the price of bits, yikes!)


Currently I'm leaning towards the CXS purely because of all the comments from users saying how nice it is to use and handle (yes @Spectric that's some festool "hype" right there, but no point asking opinions if I ignore all the happy festool users!).
I honestly don't mind spending the bit extra if it really is that nice to use, and I have absolutely no intention of buying any other 12v tools so it doesn't worry me that nothing else uses the same batteries.

I've also come across this Mafell drill which is a little more than I want to spend, but if anyone's used it I'm all ears as I know people talk highly of their tools.

 

[Sideways]

I don't know about that specific Mafell drill but look carefully at the Metabo range. Mafell have sold Metabo drills badged up in Mafell colours and that may still be the case.
Metabo make good tools and have very good batteries so it's not a problem, but you may be paying a little more for the same thing in red vs Metabo dark green.

Note Metabo HPT is the same as Hikoki / Hitachi Power Tools. A private equity firm bought both companies and has been doing some rebranding. The dark and light green tools are still essentially the products of two different companies. Batteries aren't compatible but my guess is the Metabo CAS platform will win as they're been licensing it to many other niche tool mfrs.

 

[Homeless Squirrel]

Those right angle drivers don't get the cheapo no/dodgy name as gears made out of soggy pasta and strip at Hi.
Mines an AEG one with multi position collar and used it on my 18v makita combi drill even with an extender bar to get at something that don't want you to find it.
Makita also do long angled right angled drivers for smaller jobs like cabinet/kitchen fitting. Angle Screwdrivers

 

[Doug71]

As @Sideways says that Mafell is this Metabo rebadged, for some reason it looks better in red

https://www.dm-tools.co.uk/Metabo-P...uick-change-angle-adapter/P21872#.Y98LVoynw1I

 

[Superduner]

I always thought that the 10.8 and 12v batteries are identical and are just labelled differently depending on where they are sold (USA or Europe).
I use both interchangeably on my DeWalt stuff.

 

[docw]

All the leading brands are pretty good and at that price point you have lots of choice. My recommendation would be either, Makita, Dewalt or Milwaukee as you will have a lot of choice open to you to buy additional tools bare and use the batteries.

If you already own batteries stick with the same brand and buy a bare unit.

 

[SLM]

As @Sideways says that Mafell is this Metabo rebadged, for some reason it looks better in red

https://www.dm-tools.co.uk/Metabo-P...uick-change-angle-adapter/P21872#.Y98LVoynw1I

If you look closely at the specs, there are some differences, so it is not simply rebadged, but shares some (many components); whether those differences are significant, is down to the use case of the individual.

 

[WillyEckerslike]

I have a Milwaukee 12v with interchangeable heads but it's the T grip version with hammer action drilling as well and the forward/reverse switch is exactly where it should be - by my thumb. It's a great little drill - the heads are easier to change than its predecessor and the chuck head will fit onto the right angle adapter meaning you're not leaving hex shank drill bits stuck in the hole when you try to remove them. I would, and have, recommended it to anyone that asks.

So why do I reach for the CXS every time?
It is simply lovely to use, it's compact, lightweight and ergonomic and it stays standing up when you put it down among other things. I also like the centrotec system although it is expensive initially however you're not restricted to it as has been pointed out.

As far as the unique battery issue is concerned that would be a problem if the kit didn't come with a charger and two batteries but it does so it's irrelevant and the batteries last ages as well.

I'm a fan of Milwaukee gear and it has given me many years of good professional service. I have a lot of it as well. It is really good value if you make full use of the interweb and the regular discount sessions on eBay. The Milwaukee (naked) was half the price of the CXS, it's brushless and it offers more versatility with that hammer action, oh, and it's a 13mm chuck not 10mm like the CXS.

If you only want to buy one drill get the T grip Milwaukee, otherwise get the CXS.

 

[Alpasty]

The Bosch flexclic is superb. There are two versions, the more common with a 15nm drill, and a version with a 35nm drill. I have had both, my current one is the latter and the extra torque is very welcome.

I use it mainly for kitchen fitting and other cabinet type work, and use the right angle and offset attachments very regularly.

The quality of these attachments and their ease of fitting and removal are impressive.

Having bought the drill, I also subsequently bought the 12v planer and router, both have proved more useful than I imagined for certain types of work.

I also have the 18v Bosch flexclic, which is also very, very useful, but for different types of work.

 

[eribaMotters]

About 10 years ago I swapped from a 12v Makita to a 10.8v Makita with Li-Ion batteries. At £50 each including charger and two batteries it was a good call. I bought two drill drivers and subsequently an impact driver I have never used, a small circular saw that is brilliant and an angle drive. For workshop/cabinet work I cannot fault them. Even with 1.3 Amp/h batteries I can get through the majority of a box of screws. The drill is compact, very easy to hold, can access tight spaces and easily do a screw up tighter than I can do by hand. The original and after market batteries are still holding a good charge.
For heavier fixing and drilling into masonry I use an 18v Blue Bosch.

Colin

ps - I've noticed the newer posher versions of my basic drill driver at 10.8v have now been reclassified as 12v

 

[frankendoodle65]

I have a Milwaukee 12v with interchangeable heads but it's the T grip version with hammer action drilling as well and the forward/reverse switch is exactly where it should be - by my thumb. It's a great little drill - the heads are easier to change than its predecessor and the chuck head will fit onto the right angle adapter meaning you're not leaving hex shank drill bits stuck in the hole when you try to remove them. I would, and have, recommended it to anyone that asks.

So why do I reach for the CXS every time?
It is simply lovely to use, it's compact, lightweight and ergonomic and it stays standing up when you put it down among other things. I also like the centrotec system although it is expensive initially however you're not restricted to it as has been pointed out.

As far as the unique battery issue is concerned that would be a problem if the kit didn't come with a charger and two batteries but it does so it's irrelevant and the batteries last ages as well.

I'm a fan of Milwaukee gear and it has given me many years of good professional service. I have a lot of it as well. It is really good value if you make full use of the interweb and the regular discount sessions on eBay. The Milwaukee (naked) was half the price of the CXS, it's brushless and it offers more versatility with that hammer action, oh, and it's a 13mm chuck not 10mm like the CXS.

If you only want to buy one drill get the T grip Milwaukee, otherwise get the CXS.

Would that be This drill you're talking about? I'd totally missed that before, looks like it does everything I'm looking for and more so definitely a contender, thanks! I can see the hammer action being useful on occasion.

Looks so good in fact I think it's knocked the Bosch out of the competition, I'm feeling like it's either this or the CXS now - versatility and power Vs ergonomics and centrotec.

Any chance you could post a picture of the CXS and the Milwaukee side by side please? Getting a sense of scale would really help here!

 

[TFrench]

I bought a 12v bosch blue impact and drill set when I bought my house 8 years ago. Absolutely fantastic little things, for 99% of DIY and workshop use they're perfect. The impact is very short as well, if you are trying to get into a tight space. I've never felt the need for one of the ones you can swap the heads on with it. Batteries are still good 8 years on. And cheap to get more. If I need more oomph I have my 18v makita stuff in the van. I keep some of the 12v bosch stuff in the van for work as well - they're so compact I can keep a lot of tools in the box, they get me out of trouble a lot! Specifically the little angle grinder, magnetic lamp and jigsaw. Buying bare units is pretty reasonable as well.

 

[TheUnicorn]

I always thought that the 10.8 and 12v batteries are identical and are just labelled differently depending on where they are sold (USA or Europe).
I use both interchangeably on my DeWalt stuff.

I think you are right, my understanding is that UK 18v dewalt is the same as US '20v max' and is just to do with whether you base the voltage on the nominal 3.7v of the cells or the 4.2v that a freshly charged cell puts out. Either way there will be circuitary involved that puts out a steady voltage whatever the charge is doing, so it all seems to be a bit of a marketing ploy

 

[Doug71]

The thing with the CXS (and I presume the Milwaukee equivalent) is how you hold them. Instead of holding the handle you kind of hold the back of the drill with your index finger pointing down the body of the drill and use your middle finger on the trigger, might sound strange but feels totally natural in use. It's that having your hand directly in line with the bit which makes it feel so controllable and like an extension of your hand.

I would say the CXS is a bit of a one trick pony, I class it as a precision screwdriver, if you want more than this the other options are probably better but if you just want a really nice little driver the Festool is great.

This video sums it up quite well.

 

[Spectric]

Metabo make good tools and have very good batteries so it's not a problem, but you may be paying a little more for the same thing in red vs Metabo dark green.

Essentialy just another aspect to how marketing uses anything it can to get customers and yes big marketing firms do employ psychologist to help target different sections or groups of people. Ideally you need to empty the brain of all preconceptions and look at potential purchases without bias but it is not easy as marketing has really got into everyones head.

 

[Spectric]

This video sums it up quite well.

That video actually demonstrates what I have previously said about design stagnation, if a company has a tool like the domino which cannot be copied the design stagnates and the process of improvement ceases wheras Milwaukee have taken an existing design like the CXS and just made it better by ironing out anything people did not like about the CXS. Ok the guy is finding some niggles like the way the Milwaukee bits are harder to remove from the holders and that the bits need more grip to remove from the chuck but then Milwaukee are targeting the heavy trade users who can remove the bits easier and don't keep the bits inthe holders, I never have on any tool be it Bosch or Makita because I buy them in quantity.

 

[DRC]

If you want a small and lightweight what about Bosch IXO you can add a right angle attachment for £19.00 both are on Amazon if you care to take a look. I've been using mine in place of bigger cordless Makita's all around my home more and more a great little tool.

 

[WillyEckerslike]

Would that be This drill you're talking about? I'd totally missed that before, looks like it does everything I'm looking for and more so definitely a contender, thanks! I can see the hammer action being useful on occasion.

Looks so good in fact I think it's knocked the Bosch out of the competition, I'm feeling like it's either this or the CXS now - versatility and power Vs ergonomics and centrotec.

Any chance you could post a picture of the CXS and the Milwaukee side by side please? Getting a sense of scale would really help here!

Yes it is that drill. I would post a picture of them side by side but the CXS is on site. I'll try to remember to bring it home tomorrow.

 

[Doug71]

Milwaukee are targeting the heavy trade users who can remove the bits easier and don't keep the bits inthe holders, I never have on any tool be it Bosch or Makita because I buy them in quantity.

A bit holder on a drill is important for me, generally a PZ2 will be in the drill with probably a PZ1, PH1, PH2 and straight bit in the holder. Many jobs I find myself constantly swapping between bits so it saves loads of time and hassle storing them on the actual drill rather than fishing them out of a box or putting them down on the floor to get lost.

 

[Spectric]

I think I work from the other direction, I try and use screws that all require the same bit, for larger screws I will always use my impact driver.