Small 12v drill/drivers

[frankendoodle65]

Hi all, I'm currently in the market for a small 12v drill/driver, mainly for those awkward hard to reach spots but it may well take other duties from my 18v Makita drills if it's nicer to use.

My first thought was the Bosch flexiclick, seems seems to be available around £175 with two batteries, right angle head, offset head etc. Looks like it covers everything at a good price so might be the obvious choice here.

Also looking at the Festool cxs for about £260, fewer accessories and less powerful but people seem to absolutely love the ergonomics if it. I'm happy to pay extra if it's genuinely a nicer tool to use. Bonus that it comes with a systainer, the Bosch L-box would be wasted on me. I'm very confused about centrotec so if anyone can explain that to me it would be nice, would I need a whole new set of proprietary bits to replace my standard 1/4" hex bits?

The festool TXS can also be found for similar prices, from a quick googling I get the impression users generally prefer the CXS but I've not done a lot of research yet.

Milwaukee make what looks like a copy of the festool but a bit more modern with more power and a brushless motor. Honestly I think the weird forward/reverse button would drive me mad so I'm discounting that one unless anyone can convince me otherwise?

Are there any others worth looking at? Happy to spend up to about £260, I just want something small and light with a right angle attachment for those hard to reach places. I don't have any 12v tools at present, so not worried about battery platforms - I know Bosch and Milwaukee both have extensive 12v ranges but in all honesty I'm unlikely to get any other 12v tools as I have it all in Makita 18v lxt and have no need for tiny saws or routers!

 

[Garden Shed Projects]

All the leading brands are pretty good and at that price point you have lots of choice. My recommendation would be either, Makita, Dewalt or Milwaukee as you will have a lot of choice open to you to buy additional tools bare and use the batteries.

If you already own batteries stick with the same brand and buy a bare unit.

 

[frankendoodle65]

Nope no 12v batteries or tools yet so starting from scratch here, although I'm really not likely to buy any other 12v tools so quite happy for this to be a one and done situation.

I had a quick look at the Dewalt offering and discounted it quite quickly - I'm probably wrong but my initial impression is that it doesn't look any more compact than my 18v Makita's, though I think that's just a subconscious bias because of the form factor - I'll do more reading on it, thanks.

As far as I can tell Makita don't offer anything in this space with the interchangeable heads, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

[AJB Temple]

Although my main drill and impact driver platform is Milwaukee, I bought the Festool CXS which frankly is superb in use. Very light, extremely controllable, for things like kitchen fitting is my go to tool. Quick and easy to swap chucks. If I really need more power then an 18v tool is wheeled out. But for what I bought the Festool for (tight spaces, awkward reaches etc) I never need more power. A charge lasts ages.

 

[frankendoodle65]

Although my main drill and impact driver platform is Milwaukee, I bought the Festool CXS which frankly is superb in use. Very light, extremely controllable, for things like kitchen fitting is my go to tool. Quick and easy to swap chucks. If I really need more power then an 18v tool is wheeled out. But for what I bought the Festool for (tight spaces, awkward reaches etc) I never need more power. A charge lasts ages.

Thanks, that's the sort of thing I've heard from a quick googling. Have you invested in centrotec bits or can you get by with standard hex bits? I'm a bit confused about what the point of centrotec is, are there any advantages or is it just festool trying to sell more accessories?

 

[SLM]

Makita do a 12/18v charger which could make juggling the charging of multiple batteries easier, alongside your existing charger.

 

[frankendoodle65]

Makita do a 12/18v charger which could make juggling the charging of multiple batteries easier, alongside your existing charger.

Yep that would be a good option, but sadly as far as I can tell Makita don't make a drill in this category.

 

[SLM]

Yep that would be a good option, but sadly as far as I can tell Makita don't make a drill in this category.

No, not one with a right-angled attachment. However, my brother makes and installs bespoke kit he’s, with lots of intricate detailing; he uses the Makita 12v drivers and finds them fantastic. I’d be interested to see the use case that demanded something more complex.

 

[frankendoodle65]

No, not one with a right-angled attachment. However, my brother makes and installs bespoke kit he’s, with lots of intricate detailing; he uses the Makita 12v drivers and finds them fantastic. I’d be interested to see the use case that demanded something more complex.

I get you, and I appreciate it's a fairly uncommon use case - chances are I'll use it as a straightforward drill driver 95% of the time, but every now and then I find myself awkwardly using a small ratchet when I can't get a drill in and a right angle drill attachment will make that so much easier.
Even if I can use my existing charger I'd still need new batteries, so it seems to me that finding the right tool for my needs is better than making compromises to suit what I already have.

 

[fleyh]

I'm currently in the market for a small 12v drill/driver, mainly for those awkward hard to reach spots

If awkward hard to reach spots is your primary goal then get yourselves
1. right angle adapter

- many well known brands produce this kind of adapter, not just DeWalt

2. flexible shaft adapter

I own Bosch flexiclick and almost never use its angle and offset angle adaptors
If I was installing kitchen or any other cabinets all day long then I would definitely prefer those, otherwise it is more convenient to use the two pictured above in most situations.
Either way - I would avoid Milwaukee due to the way they implemented forward/reverse switch.

Regarding centrotec - no you do not need to replace your bits (you will want to, but that's another discussion). You can use normal bits just fine with Festool because it comes with the adaptor in the box

 

[frankendoodle65]

Thanks @fleyh I've tried a cheapy no name right angle adapter in the past and it ended up in the bin, just couldn't get on with it and you've got to fight the whole unit wanting to spin.
Also just having a small, lightweight drill would make my life easier on a fairly regular basis, so I'm pretty set on buying a new drill at this point.

How do you find the flexiclick in use? Does it feel nice in the hand, does it have enough power for what you want to use it for? Where's the limit where a bigger drill just has to come out?

Re. Centrotec, I didn't realise an adapter is supplied, that's good to know. As for the other discussion on why I'd want to use centrotec bits, please elaborate! The CXS is definitely a contender so knowing more about centrotec could make up my mind for me.

 

[Jameshow]

If you or anyone else wants a cheaper option then this bauker drill is good value simalar to the Wickes model at £34 but £6 cheaper.

Better built an the b&q model and others on eBay. Copes with 100mm screws.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14481432...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[frankendoodle65]

If you or anyone else wants a cheaper option then this bauker drill is good value simalar to the Wickes model at £34 but £6 cheaper.

Better built an the b&q model and others on eBay. Copes with 100mm screws.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14481432...tixoXeJTeO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

That looks great value for odd DIY jobs, I'm expecting pretty regular use so I'd rather spend more and get a tool designed to take some use and abuse!

 

[fleyh]

Thanks @fleyh I've tried a cheapy no name right angle adapter in the past and it ended up in the bin, just couldn't get on with it and you've got to fight the whole unit wanting to spin.

LOL. One of the reasons I seldom use Flexiclick angled adapters is because all my "hard to reach" places are really hard to reach and flexclick adapters simply do not fit there, whereas right angle and flexible shaft (while incredibly fiddly to use) do the job.

Also just having a small, lightweight drill would make my life easier on a fairly regular basis, so I'm pretty set on buying a new drill at this point.

How do you find the flexiclick in use? Does it feel nice in the hand, does it have enough power for what you want to use it for? Where's the limit where a bigger drill just has to come out?

I have no major complains about Flexiclick. Couple of things that spring to mind
1. Flexiclick adapter change mechanism could be better. I have had several instances where adapter fell off during drilling/screwing because I accidentally rotated wrong ring (on the adapter) while tightening/un-tightening the drill bit. This issue has never happened with festool as it uses different adapter fixing mechanism
2. Flexiclick driver does not have a wide enough base to stand it on, you always have to put it on its side.

Re. Centrotec, I didn't realise an adapter is supplied, that's good to know. As for the other discussion on why I'd want to use centrotec bits, please elaborate! The CXS is definitely a contender so knowing more about centrotec could make up my mind for me.

For screwdriver bits centrotec or not centrotec does not matter. The difference starts when you want to use single drill/driver for both drilling and screwing and have to swap hex shank drill bits with screw driver bits back and forth. Non centrotec drill bits wobble in the hex adapter and you can't ensure precise drilling. As a workaround (or when using non non centrotec drill bits) you could put your drill bit into drill head/adapter and screwdriver into centrotec head and swap heads instead of bits.
Here is an in depth explanation of centrotec if you want more details.

 

[Doug71]

I have had a CXS for years and it is by far my most used driver, it feels great in the hand. It's a bit slow for drilling so I normally have another drill set up for that, in fact the CXS spends most of it's time without any chuck on at all just a bit placed straight in the end of the shaft to make it as compact as possible. I find the trigger control on Festool drills better than any other, it's hard to explain but they seem to be able to run slower than other drills giving you really fine control. I'm happy using it on straight slotted screws.

The bit holder that's supplied isn't actually that great, it's worth getting one of these just for the bit holder which will hold any type of bit securely. The holder alone is normally about £25 so these are a real bargain!

https://ffx.co.uk/product/Get/Festo...ain+UK&tduid=20509fc68749ed9ce45ebfeb073c0455
The only downside is the batteries don't fit anything else which is a shame. Also the CXS has been around for years so some people complain that it's a brushed motor but this doesn't matter because it just works.

Festool are actually releasing a new model CXS soon but it's 18v so not sure how compact it will be.

 

[Spectric]

Also the CXS has been around for years so some people complain that it's a brushed motor but this doesn't matter because it just works.

I would not get hung up on having or not having brushes, you are supposed to get longer run time as there is no friction from the brushes but then brushless Dc motors are more complex so if you like a tool and it has brushes, so what.

 

[Nelsun]

The Flexiclick are great but unrefined (trigger wise) compared to the Milwaukee.

The different chucks retain the bit (it can't pull out) where all bar the normal hex chuck on the Milwaukee just have magnets which can see the bit getting left behind.

The forward / reverse on the Milwaukee is a PITA but you get used to it. Being able to totally lock the trigger is handy when it's chucked in a bag, however.

The Flexiclick chucks will take Centrotec bits but the Milwaukee ones won't. Or, they do... but they fall out!

There's no belt hooks on the Flexiclicks which is a pain.

Milwaukee chucks are easier to swap out.

Given the choice (I have a pair of both) I go for the Milwaukee over the Flexiclick as they feel better in the hand, have a better trigger and a hook.

 

[Jameshow]

That looks great value for odd DIY jobs, I'm expecting pretty regular use so I'd rather spend more and get a tool designed to take some use and abuse!

Deffo for regular use,

As a second drill or for those who don't need a powerful drill it does the job.

 

[Sideways]

If there's any chance you will buy other 12V tools in future, the wider product ranges may matter.

Bosch have quite an extensive 12v range, with many brushless, and the overall impression is how small they are. I had a brushed drill driver from their range 4 years ago and quite liked it but not very powerful and not very robust. Newer ones feel better. If you won't use them hard, it's a good range. If you already have 18V for all the heavy lifting, then the much smaller size of the 12V range might really appeal.

Milwaukee also have an extensive 12V range. Generally, they are noticeably larger than the Bosch 12V, stronger built, tougher and more powerful. I've been surprised by just how good the Milwaukee 12V are and for many people they may be good enough that they have no need for 18V.

Handles of the Bosch and Milwaulee ranges feel different. Each uses 3 cells inside the handle but they are arranged differently. Bosch feels better to smaller hands in my view. Actually, both have "fat" handles compared to their 18V versions tools which put a bigger battery below a slimmer handle.

With Festool, their range isn't that big so I don't see them being the sole battery platform for many people. Some of us are willing to buy into a battery just for one or two tools. I've done that, but I wouldn't try to justify it with any reason except "I want it".

Note that all these tools are 10.8V whatever they are labelled, because they all use strings of 3 lithium batteries in series and 3x3.6V nominal = 10.8V
Lithium rechargeable cells are 4.2v hot off the charger so some manufacturers exploited that to call their batteries 12V because a bigger number has to sell more product, right ?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

If you want other 12v tools the Bosch blue looks excellent. I don't own them however (but keep looking at them!), I own a Festool CXS and TXS and they are frankly superb. Never found their limits. Making an MFT top was a doddle with small drill in CXS and forstner in TXS, though as centrotec I could have changed over in seconds with one drill. I also have an Aldi 12v (like the other cheapies here) and also like that but not a Festool. I have other drills but my favourite was always the 12v Festool.