sliding mitre saw...A NO NO?

[Rich]

I would still advocate following the manufacturers instructions, that is why they are produced for the user of the said tool.
Failure to follow the recommendations could result in injury and NO recompense in insurance payout, on this I must agree with Jake, read the manual supplied with the tool.

Rich.

 

[phantom of the offcut]

Absolutely agree with Rich on this one You must pull out,chop down, and push the blade away. I use a SCMS almost every day at work and i can tell you that if you pull the blade and it 'bites' into the timber it can propel itself towards you and any misplaced digits at an alarming rate.!

 

[markwuzere]

have to agree have always pulled saw out then down and push away to cut, use 1 every day and never had a problem

 

[OPJ]

As long as the blade you have fitted has teeth with a negative rake, I suppose you could use the saw to cut on either the push or pull... I personally prefer to draw it out towards me, plunge down and then push back towards the fence. If you do it the other way then, you're working in the same direction to which the blade is rotating, which could invite the blade to 'roll' off the timber and head towards your limbs! :?

My personal view is that sliding compound mitre saws are safer than radial arm saws. I made the careless mistake a last year of placing the concave edge of a length of timber against the fence... As the saw reached the end of the cut (nearest the fence), there was a huge BANG as the blade bound in the cut!! Fortunately, at the same time, the saw 'head' lifts back up in to it's resting position and the guard wraps around with it.

If the same thing had happened on a radial arm saw, I would've been relying on the width of the timber to (hopefully!) stop the blade from racing out towards me, removing any stray fingers in the process! :?

I do still question the accuracy of most SCMS's, particularly at full width of cut.

 

[Lord Nibbo]

Blimey I only asked "do you pull or push?" I didn't think it would start an avalanche of posts.

So which is the correct way? Did Scrit say pull? If he did I don't think he was at all correct, I'll let you look at my explanation pic, when you get to last paragraph at the bottom Re: the guard you can make your own mind up.

 

[maltrout512]

LN and the others that use the scms and had said to pull down on the wood then pull towards you, HAVE you ever been smacked in the eye with the hand thats holding the saw. LN's diagram shows blade direction, so you lower down blade to wood and push in the direction the blade is rotating. Why do table saw blades rotate towards you. (If you are standing in the right place to use the saw)

 

[NeilO]

LN exactly,
you also missed the fact the fence is at the rear supporting the wood as its pushed against it......the palte supporting the downward forces and the rear fence supporting the backward force induced by you PUSHING the smcs.
.isnt that the sole reason a Radial arm saw has a front fence/rail, because your pulling the blade toward you??

Malcolm, I think youll find a sawtable works by a similar principle, with the blade rotating toward you it causes a downward force on the wood (I understand it also creates the possiblity of kickback0 but thats why you never take your hand off a peice of wood whilst cutting (your hand is effectively the rear fence )
to have the blade spinning away from you would just be suicidal :shock:

 

[maltrout512]

Neil, may be wrong here and sorry, but the radial saw has the same blade rotation as a scms and works on the same cutting idea. ie wood is cut on the underside of the blade. I can't find a radial saw that has a front fence. So you should bring the saw blade out past the wood, switch on and lower (scms) radial push away from you towards the rear fence. Blade rotation gives it away every time. On a saw table the rear fence as such is the table, because the wood is passing over the top of the saw blade (same rotation) therefore the wood is pinned to the table but you are pushing (guiding) the wood with you hand Sorry stick.

Any machine is as safe as whoever is using it.

Don't forget it's safer and helps to read the manual.

 

[Jake]

I remember Scrit's diagrams in aid for convincing people they should not be push cutting with a RAS!

He does seem ambivalent about direction of cut on an SCMS in that post.
I am a bit surprised by that, but then I have more experience of a RAS and virtually none of an SCMS (never owned one, no real need for one).

The RAS has a whacking great column and arm to help keep it bearing down and not running away as it climb-cuts. Even then it's a bit of a juggling act between pulling and pushing as LN's document suggests - but ultimately it will tend to jam and stall because of the arm.

The SCMS has a hinge. Erm.

 

[NeilO]

Malcolm, I dont owm a RAS and have never used one my "theory" is based on the few RAS I have seen in operation and always seemed to have a small fence/rail on the front edge for whatever reason?

but I do know when using a SCMS you should the saw to the leading edge of your workpiece switch on , drop and cut back towards the fence (PUSH)

As I said the RAS statement is only my theory, and is no way text book operating proceedure, and I will not accept liability for any injury to person or persons injured using such blantantly wrong info :wink:
if in doubt RTFM :lol:

Hands on table saw, but then I rarely cut anything smaller than 18" anyway if I do its certainly a stick , Malcolm...
I can always buy more wood, where as fingers seem to cost the bleeding earth these days :wink:

 

[maltrout512]

Neil, I hope you didn't feel I was being rude and reading both posts again I think we have said the same thing but as can happen used different words.. All the best, and to the others, safe cutting.

 

[NeilO]

No problem , Malcolm..

its always nice to be reminded of safe working practises...as they say familiarity breeds contempt, and like I said I can always buy more wood

 

[neilyweely]

OK, to cover one point that I feel was missed a bit. The RAS blade should be a negative rake, which in theory should stop the blade from pulling towrd you when pulling through the cut. I have a RAS and this is how I have always used the saw, how I was taught years ago, and have never had a problem (apart from when I used a positive rake blade supplied with RAS bought from E-bay - it was obvious this was dangerous as soon as it was used.

I also have a SCMS and, as said by just about all, it 'feels' safe to use on the push stroke. I think it is fairly obvious when you use the tool that this is how it should be used. Again, as others have said, I have used this saw for years like this with no problems. And, whilst I suppose I should, I never use the supplied clamp.

Guess I will carry on as before. I knew this thread would get a reaction!

Neil

 

[PAC1]

I learnt to clamp not hold as an apprentice. I was re taught the lesson 2 years ago when mitering some moulding. I had mitred one end and turned it round to miter the other for some unknown reason the moulding snagged on the blade and the piece with the nice miter on it came out and embedded itself in my thumb. Two stitches later and a lot of pain, it was months before my thumb was functioning properly.

When you think about it the blade was 300 diameter so the projectile was travelling close to 100MPH.

I now respect my saw a lot more than I did. I push not pull and stand slightly to the side of the larger clamped piece of wood.

It was my first accident on a woodwork machine in 30 years of using them.

 

[gidon]

From my Bosch 10 SD user manual:

Also feels safer to me this method - you can see exactly where not to put your hand!

Cheers

Gidon

 

[chunkolini]

Cheers al for that fascinating discourse and thanks Gidon for that quote, very clear. Iwill always use mine that way from nw one.
Chunko'.

 

[Jake]

I hope everyone is clear that with a RAS you pull through the cut. There seemed to be some agreement at cross-purposes going on.

 

[Nigel]

After reading Gidons Instructions for his Bosch saw I find the instructions for my Elektra Beckum are the opposite,
So there is no hard and fast rule regards Pushing Or Pulling

If in doubt RTFM

Nigel

 

[Jake]

If in doubt RTFM

Heh. But not more than one.

 

[Derek Willis.]

If the teeth cut forward and up as mine do, then obviously you should push the saw.
Derek.