SIP stockists / table saw advice

[siggy_7]

Hello,

I'm drawing up a (growing) short-list of table saws for my first-time workshop, and the one I'm struggling to find in supply near me is the SIP 01332 which seems to get very positive feedback from many forum members. I'm based in the Bristol area, can anyone point me to a showroom where I can go and have a good look around?

Related to this topic, if anyone wants to provide advice on which way I should go with my current short-list or add something to consider then please do so! A bit of background what I am looking for - my workshop is about 15'6 x 8'6, and has 7' wide double doors to one end which open out onto a level concrete driveway more than 15' square. I am most interested in straight rip and cross-cut capability (most joint cutting I prefer to do with a router), working with plywood, pine and oak. Ripping to 2' seems plenty to me at this stage. I rate being able to handle 8x4 plywood up to 3/4" thick high on my priority list. I'm not currently thinking I will be working with much really thick stuff, but I'd rather buy capability I won't use often than not buy capability and then find I need it. My previous table saw experience is working with a family member's 12" cabinet saw with a sliding cross-cut carriage, and having used it a bit I don't think I could be without one. One neat feature of this saw was that the whole sliding table folded down flush with the side of the saw when not in use, something I would really like to find if possible. I know my shop isn't that big but I would plan to mount it on a wheeled base and drag it outside when working with larger materials. I would like to build a router table into the right hand side of the saw (recently bought a Triton TRA001 at a bargain £99 from Yandles). I'm willing to spend up to or just over £1,000 for the right saw, but I don't want to spend the cash if I don't really need to.

Currently I am considering:

Axminster TS-200 (well who doesn't consider it!) - has a good value reputation and with some fettling would probably handle anything I can see myself doing for a while. Big cost advantage and light, but the sliding table only has 900mm travel (I think) so wouldn't be able to handle a full 4' cross-cut. I also think that some major constructions around the saw would be needed to handle larger boards in general; the table itself looks tiny! Requires no electrical upgrade to my workshop (currently I don't have a 16A socket)

Axminster AW10BSB2 - appears to be held in high regard by people who own one, plenty of power and very sturdy construction. One of the more affordable "proper" 10" saws but weighs a lot. Sliding carriage is quickly detachable I think from the literature and has 1220mm travel so should be ok with boards with sufficient extra support tables.

Axminster AW12BSB2 - as for the 10" but more capacity and power so for the extra £250 would be worth considering

Charnwood W650 - a much lighter saw and has got some good feedback from a couple of people who have bought one. Has the option for a longer travel sliding table which I would probably want for boards. Not sure about a 1700W motor although it runs off a 13A plug so could be seen as a benefit. I haven't seen one with a long sliding carriage in the metal but it looks like it would be awkward to move as it has an extra support leg. I saw one in Yandles last weekend and the crosscut fence seemed loose on the inside post so I'm a bit concerned about that

Jet JTS-600 - I only recently found out about this one and it looks like it was almost designed for me in that it seems like a compact panel saw within budget, with a format sliding table. Motor power appears plentiful, looks like it won't take up much space and users seem to have good things to say about it. However from the specs and sizes I'm not sure how it will actually handle the 8x4 boards as I don't think it seems big enough or a long enough table stroke?

SIP 01332 - Appears to have much of the same pluses and minuses as the Axminster 10", but about £200 dearer. I think the Axminster sliding carriage will fit and is a little cheaper, the SIP sliding carriage appears not to be as removeable as the Axminster one.

So, that's my short list. When I saw it I gave fleeting consideration to a Triton system with the maxi sliding table for board handling capacity, but on reflection it seems to require table-saw levels of outlay for something that looks much flimsier, less accurate and quite awkward to shift, assemble and disassemble. I could be persuaded to get a Festool system for boards but it seems a LOT of cash for a hand-held saw and it's not a table saw replacement, so I'd still need to buy something. I'm planning a trip to Axminster in the near future to look at their saws and also the Jet, I've already seen the Charnwood at Yandles and will go back for a proper look soon as well.

As you can tell from the range of options being considered, I havent' got much of a direction yet. Any contributions gratefully appreciated!

Chris

 

[paulm]

Personally I would go with a Festool, Mafell or Makita circular saw and rail system for initial breaking down of sheets and then a solid table saw set-up for final dimensioning, rather than trying to size the table saw upwards for the initial two or three dimensioning cuts, unless I was doing a lot of sheet work on a very regular basis, which you may be.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Chems]

The SIP 01332 sliding table does come off fairly easily, it has a couple of big brackets but if you just want the rail off you only need to undo 4 hand nuts.

Like Paul said, none of these are suitable for working with 8x4 sheets but are excellent for normal sized panel dimensioning in furniture making. I have the 01332 and a £20 quid Circular saw and my own home made rail and I can work between the 2 with sheets very comfortably.

 

[Steve Maskery]

In a shop that size I think you are devoting too much of your precious space to the tablesaw. I know you say you can wheel it outside, but, realistically, just how often are you going to need to do that?
Sheet goods are much more suitably handled with some trestles, a circular saw and a track. It doesn't have to be a fancy Festool/Mafell/DeWalt aluminium track, I got by fine for several years with a little cordless DW and a home-made MDF track. You could buy a good portable TS like the Bosch, have a good solution and be quids in, too.
If you think you will have more space in the future, you could consider the Woodford range. At the top end of your budget, I know, but you can fit a sliding table later and the thing is built like a tank. It's in a different league to the SIP (see Mailee's recent SIP woes).
Some ideas, anyway.
S

 

[shipbadger]

Hi,

I think SIP have replaced the 01332 with a new saw. I bought an 01332 back in December (before the VAT rise) from Toolite in Mitcheldean and they had a demo machine. May be worth a phone call to see if they still have it, clarify the supply position or even make them an offer for the demo machine if it has been superceded.

Tony Comber

 

[les chicken]

As Tony said have a trip to Toolite, it is well worth the trip. It is like the sweetshop for woodies.

Les

 

[Chems]

Hi,

I think SIP have replaced the 01332 with a new saw. I bought an 01332 back in December (before the VAT rise) from Toolite in Mitcheldean and they had a demo machine. May be worth a phone call to see if they still have it, clarify the supply position or even make them an offer for the demo machine if it has been superceded.

Tony Comber

Its not been replaced, theres a cheaper less industrial version of it that looks excellent. Fox are doing it as well, sort of a cross between Axy200 and the bigger 10".

I think the whole saw with sliding table is about the same price as its big brother without the table:

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/workshop-&-po ... -table-saw

If you wait for one of rutlands 10% + free delivery days which normally come before Fathers day and most holidays you could get a good deal on it.

 

[siggy_7]

Thanks for all your advice guys and for the tip on Toolite, I will wander on over there after work one evening (I actually work in Gloucester so really close, brilliant recommendation!). I'm struggling to find feedback on the Jet JTS-600 but on paper I'm leaning towards it assuming the quality and capacity is right. I can't even seem to track down what the max cross-cut travel of this saw is, which for a machine whos sliding table is such an integral feature seems mad to me. I love the idea of a mini panel saw with a proper outrigger support table, I'm quite tempted to try and build in an outrigger system onto a different saw if the Jet doesn't come up trumps. Anyone else tried this? Looking at a high end professional system like the Felder K915 (which is of course twice as big and 10 times as expensive relative to my constraints) I don't know how much of a hair-brained idea it would be to try and construct all the outriggers and extension parts for something else.

 

[Lord Kitchener]

I second the advice to crosscut with a Festool saw and rail, or some less expensive (and less good) alternative. As someone who has owned a couple of panel saws big enough to crosscut an 8x4 sheet, it would not occur to me to do it that way. Admittedly I've always had a Festool set-up as well. It's the sheer amount of space you would need, especially if the required cut was near one of the short edges, not to mention the strength needed.

 

[woodbloke]

?

...my workshop is about 15'6 x 8'6...

Charnwood W650 - a much lighter saw and has got some good feedback from a couple of people who have bought one. Has the option for a longer travel sliding table which I would probably want for boards. Not sure about a 1700W motor although it runs off a 13A plug so could be seen as a benefit. I haven't seen one with a long sliding carriage in the metal but it looks like it would be awkward to move as it has an extra support leg. I saw one in Yandles last weekend and the crosscut fence seemed loose on the inside post so I'm a bit concerned about that

My 'shop is 20 x 12' and I would struggle to fit in the SIP or Ax with the sliders...they're big and take up a lot of floor space. I'm taking delivery of a W650 next month which suits my needs. The 1700W motor is still 2.5Kw, which is about the same as the Ax, it has a very good small slider (based on the Kity format) a 10" blade with a decent doc and best of all...it has a footprint which makes it ideal in a smaller 'shop, at least for me. Read Andy King's excellent review if in doubt - Rob

 

[siggy_7]

The Festool does look the mutt's nuts, but I can't get myself away from the fact that I'd be paying £500 for a hand held circular saw and a rail, which I would only use for handling boards too big to fit on a small table saw.

Woodbloke - did you go for the short or long sliding table? I had a look at the one in Yandles which had the shorter carriage on it. The saw looked pretty decent but I was quite concerned to see that the crosscut fence at the back of the table was loose - there are two vertical posts that it attaches to behind the fence and it appeared to have a lot of play on the right hand mount. I couldn't see how that had happened or how to sort it, although I only spend a few minutes looking at the saw as someone wanted to go to the cafe for lunch :roll: I think you mean 2.5hp for the motor power not 2.5kW - the Axminster is 2200W as is the SIP, and the Jet is 2600W.

I had a look at the SIP 01574 but that has an even smaller motor than the W650 (1500W) - can anyone comment on how that will fare ripping through 2" thick oak?

Chris

 

[Chems]

The blade is more important than the power I think. To a certain extent.

 

[woodbloke]

I think you mean 2.5hp for the motor power not 2.5kW - the Axminster is 2200W as is the SIP, and the Jet is 2600W


Chris

I went for the standard standard sized slider, not the extended version. You're right...2.5hp I intend to fit mine with a couple of Freud blades from DMT - Rob

 

[Lord Kitchener]

The Festool does look the mutt's nuts, but I can't get myself away from the fact that I'd be paying £500 for a hand held circular saw and a rail, which I would only use for handling boards too big to fit on a small table saw.

There's more to it than that. A Festool will get a better quality of cut than most, if not all, table saws, especially when crosscutting veneered boards, plywood or anything that has a tendency to breakout.

Also when making parallel rips, if they are more than approx 185.5mm wide (the width of the rail) then a Festool set up will produce a more accurate width than any but the most expensive rip saw fence systems.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I agree. If the majority of your work will be with sheet goods, then a good CC with track and a mid-range bandsaw (for the other stuff) will probably be a better use of financial and space resources that a small TS.

And you can rip narrower than the track if you use the right sort of setting jig. I haven't got a picture, but if you look through you back-issues of British Woodworking, it was in there a few issues ago.

Onthe other hand, it is true that a good TS will do more than any CC will. It's a matter of horses for courses.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Lord Kitchener]

And you can rip narrower than the track if you use the right sort of setting jig. I haven't got a picture, but if you look through you back-issues of British Woodworking, it was in there a few issues ago.

You don't need a jig, all you need is a steel rule and one of these rule stops

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... rod366134/

then set the stop at 2.5mm (usually, but experiment will determine the best setting for the offset) more than the required width, then set the rule stop on the edge of the board, and set the rail so that the rubber/plastic strip is at the end of the rule, at one end of the cut, then set the other end with the same rule, then go back to the first end and make sure it hasn't moved, and reset if it has.

In this way the rubber/plastic strip is set at 2.5mm from the edge of the board, and parallel to it. Make the cut. If it's not absolutely the required width then make the necessary change to the offset.

This is more accurate, and a lot cheaper, than using the festool jigs because you are using the same rule at each end, so even if the cut is .1 or so of a mm out, it will still be parallel, which is often more important than absolute accuracy.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well that is a jig! And both work in a very similar manner. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
S

 

[Lord Kitchener]

Well that is a jig! And both work in a very similar manner. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
S

I'd be interested to see your jig.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Here you go:

I set the gauge to the required distance and use it to set the distance of the track from the edge. As you say, because I use the same setting at each end of the track, it is guaranteed to be parallel. It only has to be calibrated once for the saw blade and can easily be re-calibrated if I change the blade.

The jig is a variation of one I made years ago and was the very first item I filmed. But that is suitable only for distances greater than the width of the track, whereas this one will go right down to zero.

S

 

[Lord Kitchener]

Here you go:
View attachment 16

I like that, especially the ability to move the rule or the cursor to set the zero. I think if I ever have someone helping me in the workshop I'll go to the trouble of making one up for him to use, rather than rely on him to add the 2.5mm.