sharpening turning tools

[richnfamous]

I've recently acquired some turning tools (Ashley Iles, mostly) which need a bit of tlc. I'm a beginner at turning so any advice about sharpening them to the best angles would be appreciated

 

[sneggysteve]

This will be interesting!

 

[Trafalgar]

If it were me, I'd follow the angles already on the tools especially if their provenance suggests they came out of a turner's shop who knew what he or she was doing.

I turn between centers only, and I've by-and-large followed the angles as they were from the manufacturer and have never had any real trouble. Ignorance could be bliss, however. Turning is probably the only area where I wanted to 'just do it' rather than spending an inordinate amount of time on the theory of it all. YouTube presenters notwithstanding, it frankly doesn't take a lot of virtuosity or complexity in tool set up to turn a square stick round, then apply a few decorative elements. In other words, don't overcomplicate things. My now 14 year old daughter turns between centers about as well as me and can produce perfectly acceptable parts. She's been known to come home from ballet practice and if I'm turning walk straight to the lathe and ask to take over, standing there in her leotard and sweatshirt.

 

[richnfamous]

If it were me, I'd follow the angles already on the tools especially if their provenance suggests they came out of a turner's shop who knew what he or she was doing.

I turn between centers only, and I've by-and-large followed the angles as they were from the manufacturer and have never had any real trouble. Ignorance could be bliss, however. Turning is probably the only area where I wanted to 'just do it' rather than spending an inordinate amount of time on the theory of it all. It frankly doesn't take a lot of virtuosity or complexity in tool set up to turn a square stick round, then apply a few decorative elements. In other words, don't overcomplicate things. My now 14 year old daughter turns between centers about as well as me and can produce perfectly acceptable parts. She's been known to come home from ballet practice and if I'm turning walk straight to the lathe and ask to take over, standing their in her leotard and sweatshirt.

the chap had let them slide a fair bit, and I've seen gouges sharpened in different ways - just wanted to get some advice

 

[Trafalgar]

Just be aware that a lot of production turners, recognizable names, 'sharpen' only on the grinder and the end of their tools can look like an inebriated beaver gnawed them. Looks can be deceiving to the uninitiated when it comes to turning tools.

If you need angles, there are some good books around that would provide those but there is far from universal agreement on what "correct" angles even are.

Sharpening wonks, whose turning tools have the same level of precision and finish as their plane irons and chisels, don't usually produce any better work. They'll argue (very shortly!) that in theory there should be no difference, but the lathe and people who make their living using them would tend to disagree.

All that said, I'm out. I don't want to be dragged in to this one and be tempted to second guess what I've been doing for years.

Here are videos of Richard Raffan grinding various turning tools and happily he tends to mention angles: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=richard+raffan+sharpening+turning+tools

I believe that he turns with tools as they are straight from the grinder. He's using a CBN wheel, and it's my understanding they're the cat's pajamas. However, take into consideration the number of years he has obviously worked before they were available. In other words, you don't have to have a CBN wheel. Last thought -- you need to determine what kind of steel the tools are made of. They could be plain high carbon or HSS. If the former, you're going to want to cool the tool often in water as you grind it.

 

[Tris]

Grab a copy of Keith Rowley's book. It'll tell you all you need to know at this stage without over complicating it. Looks like they are mostly carbon steel, so slow and steady on the grinder with plenty of water to cool if required

 

[sploo]

If you want a no-brainer solution, the Sorby Pro-Edge with suitable attachments will make sharpening just about any turning chisel an absolute breeze; but it doesn't come cheap.

A cheap grinder with a suitable budget jig (e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lathe-Tool...ocphy=1006864&hvtargid=pla-698027314259&psc=1) will be a more wallet friendly option.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A cheap grinder with a 1st class wheel is often better than a good grinder with a poor wheel. Watch FB Marketplace, Scumtree etc. locally for grinders - ebay has loads but usually the P&P is as much as the grinder.
I picked up this W. German (shows its age) 8" grinder (without the jig) for £20 on FB Marketplace -

 

[Jacob]

..... -- you need to determine what kind of steel the tools are made of. They could be plain high carbon or HSS. If the former, you're going to want to cool the tool often in water as you grind it.

Ordinary tool steel (not HSS) easy to do freehand on an oil stone. A bit unfashionable but perfectly OK

 

[Andy's Shed]

These are the angles from the Robert Sorby Pro Edge manual, hope it's of some help.

 

[Trafalgar]

Ordinary tool steel (not HSS) easy to do freehand on an oil stone. A bit unfashionable but perfectly OK

I have mostly regular carbon steel turning tools (old Buck Bros.) and I do them on a coarse/fine India. I do have a HSS Sorby gouge that I use off the grinder -- waste of time rubbing it on an oilstone. I've turned with the Bucks straight of the grinder plenty of times -- there's frankly little difference from when they come off the oilstone.

 

[Richard_C]

The formula x = N squared + 1 is helpful here.

X is the number of ways to sharpen any tool, N is the number of people you ask.

Ask one person, they say you could do this, or that, X = 2. Ask 2 people you get 5 and an argument, ask 3 you get 10 and a fight.

You can look up recommended angles. Sometimes you get a range, eg spindle gouge 40 to 25 degrees. Both and everything in between are right, one is easier to use, one better for certain types of work. Read around, pick a general purpose or middling one to start with.

I sometimes think people have sharpening as their main hobby, with some occasional woodturning in between. Edges can blunt very quickly with some kinds of wood so speed is more important than perfection.

You can easily spend more on a sharpening 'system' than on a lathe.
Repeatability is more important than exact angle, otherwise you waste steel and time. You present the tool to the workpiece by hand and eye coordination, so you should be able to sharpen the same way, without complicated jigs. Most things are fine on a grinder with an adjustable toolrest.

Simple things help a lot, my sharpening got a lot better when I thought carefully about the height of the grinder so I wasn't leaning over, decent lighting and putting the grinder close to the lathe so it was a little and often job.

Keith Rowley book, mentioned above, is an excellent start and he wasn't trying to sell you "must have" expensive kit.

 

[Jacob]

The formula x = N squared + 1 is helpful here.

X is the number of ways to sharpen any tool, N is the number of people you ask.

Ask one person, they say you could do this, or that, X = 2. Ask 2 people you get 5 and an argument, ask 3 you get 10 and a fight.
......

That's why it's interesting to check the older books from when sharpening and everything was much simpler and everybody did it the same way; basically grind on a coarse wheel or stone, hone on a finer one, freehand.
Percy Blandford is typical WOOD TURNING by Percy W Blandford: Very Good Pictorial Card Cover (1953) First. | September Books

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It was brilliant. Many decades ago. Honing turning tools (especially HSS) is completely unnecessary.

 

[Nail]

Flat bevels or concave bevels?

When I was a young teenager and started turning I didn’t know there was a difference.

Now I rarely turn but know a fair bit about grinding bevels on other cutting tools so have wondered if the final geometry makes a big difference?

 

[Jacob]

It was brilliant. Many decades ago. Honing turning tools (especially HSS) is completely unnecessary.

"Honing" on a medium grit. HSS too difficult to "grind" freehand but edge can still be kept tickled on an oil stone. Lot to be said for just sticking to tool steel chisels. Hang on to them if you have any.

 

[Jacob]

Flat bevels or concave bevels?

When I was a young teenager and started turning I didn’t know there was a difference.

Flattish to convex bevels produced by freehand oil stone, flat by using a jig, concave by wheel grind. For most purposes makes no difference.

Now I rarely turn but know a fair bit about grinding bevels on other cutting tools so have wondered if the final geometry makes a big difference?

Not usually - it's the sharpness and the edge angle which count.

 

[Chisteve]

Well I use 120/320 grit flap wheels by and belt sander sometimes

Surprisingly get good results

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"Honing" on a medium grit. HSS too difficult to "grind" freehand but edge can still be kept tickled on an oil stone. Lot to be said for just sticking to tool steel chisels. Hang on to them if you have any.

It's worth hanging on to good carbon steels skews, but that's about it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Flat bevels or concave bevels?

When I was a young teenager and started turning I didn’t know there was a difference.

Now I rarely turn but know a fair bit about grinding bevels on other cutting tools so have wondered if the final geometry makes a big difference?

I knew several very good turners who refused to use a ProEdge because of the lack of concavity, preferring to use a wheel of about 4" - 5" diameter.

edit - I should also say I knew others who swore by them.