Sharpening a block plane

[Woodchips2]

I have just picked up a second-hand Record 0130 block plane in good condition and need some advice on sharpening it please. It's the first block plane I've bought because I've used a Stanley No 4 for everything before!

The blade can be used in the normal position or in the forward position to become a bull-nosed plane. The blade has been honed at a single bevel of around 30 degrees and cuts well but should it have a primary ground bevel and then a secondary honed bevel and if so at what angles?

I attach a couple of photos although the one of the blade isn't very clear to see the single bevel.

Keith

 

[Paul Chapman]

It's usual to grind the primary bevel at 25 degrees and hone the secondary bevel at 30 degrees. There would be nothing wrong in using a single bevel at 30 degrees - honing would just take a little longer, which is why it is usual to have a primary and secondary bevel.

The plane should be used with the bevel up.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Woodchips2]

Thanks Paul. I'll try it for a while at the single bevel. I thought at first the bevel was the wrong way being bevel up but it won't actually fit bevel down so realised then block planes are different to smoothing planes :lol:
Regards Keith

 

[Scouse]

Hi Keith,

A closer look at your plane makes me wonder if it doesn't have a bit of damage, the rear bull nose end seems shorter than others I have seen, here for example;

It shouldn't affect the action of the tool in it's regular block plane mode, but when reversed does it have a full rear mouth opening?

El.

 

[bugbear]

Hi Keith,

A closer look at your plane makes me wonder if it doesn't have a bit of damage, the rear bull nose end seems shorter than others I have seen, here for example;

It shouldn't affect the action of the tool in it's regular block plane mode, but when reversed does it have a full rear mouth opening?

El.

Looks like the rare "chisel plane" model

BgBear

 

[AndyT]

Well-spotted El - but whoever did it seems to have come round in the night and broken mine too!

On the other hand, I've only wanted the bullnose position once, to remove a bump from a floorboard, and it worked ok for that.

Btw, I agree that a single bevel is fine on a little bit of blade like this; mine is sharpened like that too.

 

[Woodchips2]

Hi Keith,

A closer look at your plane makes me wonder if it doesn't have a bit of damage, the rear bull nose end seems shorter than others I have seen, here for example;

It shouldn't affect the action of the tool in it's regular block plane mode, but when reversed does it have a full rear mouth opening?

El.

Hi El
You're right, it does have a bit missing, well spotted \/ Maybe that's why it was so cheap (I only paid £6 on a market stall selling secondhand tools). It's been well disguised because both sides have been ground the same.

It works well in the regular mode especially now I've made a mitre shooting board and can make decent mitre joints for the first time. The things I've learned from the forum :lol: :lol:
Regards Keith

 

[Jacob]

......
Btw, I agree that a single bevel is fine on a little bit of blade like this;...

A single bevel is fine for any blade, flat or convex. Two bevels is just a modern fashion.

 

[jimi43]

......
Btw, I agree that a single bevel is fine on a little bit of blade like this;...

A single bevel is fine for any blade, flat or convex. Two bevels is just a modern fashion.

Nah....I'm seeing things..... :shock: :shock: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Jacob]

......
Btw, I agree that a single bevel is fine on a little bit of blade like this;...

A single bevel is fine for any blade, flat or convex. Two bevels is just a modern fashion.

Nah....I'm seeing things..... :shock: :shock: :mrgreen:

Jim

One has to keep reminding people so they can keep a grip on reality!

 

[Harbo]

Jacob stated

Two bevels is just a modern fashion

So when does modern become modern?

Record's "Planecraft" first published in 1934 talks of a second bevel and "Woodcraft for Schools and Colleges" published in 1946 shows a grinding angle of 25 degrees and a sharpening angle of 35.
Perhaps you can give some evidence from earlier works which contradicts this or is it just another one of your chimerical statements?

 

[Jacob]

Jacob stated

Two bevels is just a modern fashion

So when does modern become modern?

Record's "Planecraft" first published in 1934 talks of a second bevel and "Woodcraft for Schools and Colleges" published in 1946 shows a grinding angle of 25 degrees and a sharpening angle of 35.....

It's found in books because it is good advice for a beginner - if using a grindwheel. Once you have got the principle you can leave it behind.
I don't "know" but I'm pretty sure that the single bevel, sometimes convex, is the most likely to have been found in use in the past simply because it is easiest and quickest if done freehand - as most sharpening is (or was). It still is widely used in other trades but woodworkers have got hung up on jigs and multiple bevels.

 

[Richard T]

Hi Keith,

I bought the same model of plane earlier this year for some one else at the car boot. He wanted a block plane and this was the one I found for him. I set about sharpening it for him and found ... I couldn't. :shock: It was very much harder than any iron I have ever encountered and this includes 'hard as glass' old Sheffield ones as well as A2.
When I finally got a burr on it and took it off - it wasn't sharp. I did it several times with different stones and though I got it sharp enought to just about cut I couldn't get it anywhere near razor.
Here is the beast in question:

This is probably just a blip in production standards but a word of warning anyhow.
I ended up putting a gauge plate substitute in for him.

 

[No skills]

As a beginner in the world of planing my experience is limited but I'll chip in anyways, I have a record block plane (9 1/2 I think) and have only ever sharpened it with the bevel angle the blade came with (25 degree I think), no secondary bevel or change of bevel. It cuts endgrain with ease and will take the finest shaving off that you would want.

The cutting edge stays sharp for a suprisingly long time as well, I thought being a newer record effort that the blade would be tat but its pretty good. My sharpening is currently done on cheapo diamond 'stones' finished on the '600' grit, if I feel like it I break out a DMT 600 and do the last bit on that (seems finer than the cheapo 600 grit).

I have found no reason (so far) to question the bevel angle or reason for adding a secondary bevel.

FWIW

 

[Woodchips2]

Hi Keith,

I bought the same model of plane earlier this year for some one else at the car boot. He wanted a block plane and this was the one I found for him. I set about sharpening it for him and found ... I couldn't. :shock: It was very much harder than any iron I have ever encountered and this includes 'hard as glass' old Sheffield ones as well as A2.
When I finally got a burr on it and took it off - it wasn't sharp. I did it several times with different stones and though I got it sharp enought to just about cut I couldn't get it anywhere near razor.
Here is the beast in question:

This is probably just a blip in production standards but a word of warning anyhow.
I ended up putting a gauge plate substitute in for him.

Hi Richard
My blade is identical but I've got a good edge on it. As you say probably a blip in production standards.
Regards Keith

 

[Woodchips2]

Jacob stated

Two bevels is just a modern fashion

So when does modern become modern?

Record's "Planecraft" first published in 1934 talks of a second bevel and "Woodcraft for Schools and Colleges" published in 1946 shows a grinding angle of 25 degrees and a sharpening angle of 35.....

It's found in books because it is good advice for a beginner - if using a grindwheel. Once you have got the principle you can leave it behind.
I don't "know" but I'm pretty sure that the single bevel, sometimes convex, is the most likely to have been found in use in the past simply because it is easiest and quickest if done freehand - as most sharpening is (or was). It still is widely used in other trades but woodworkers have got hung up on jigs and multiple bevels.

So is a secondary bevel just for quicker sharpening because you are dealing with a smaller area of steel?

When I started woodturning I tried freehand sharpening and ended up with secondary, third, fourth and fifth bevels on the same tool :lol: I bought a jig and my sharpening and turning came on leaps and bounds!
Regards Keith

 

[Jacob]

...
So is a secondary bevel just for quicker sharpening because you are dealing with a smaller area of steel?

Not if you count having to deal with the pimary bevel too. With rounded bevel sharpening you actually employ more bevels - an infinite number in fact - continuous but without demarcation between them.

 

[DTR]

So is a secondary bevel just for quicker sharpening because you are dealing with a smaller area of steel?

That's exactly it. A grinder or coarse stone removes the bulk of the waste quickly on what becomes the primary bevel. Then the slow cutting fine stone only has to work on a small area. Note that you don't have to work on the primary bevel every time you sharpen, only occasionally to keep the secondary bevel small. Every time you hone the secondary bevel it will get slightly larger.

 

[Woodchips2]

...
So is a secondary bevel just for quicker sharpening because you are dealing with a smaller area of steel?

Not if you count having to deal with the pimary bevel too. With rounded bevel sharpening you actually employ more bevels - an infinite number in fact - continuous but without demarcation between them.

I've not come across rounded bevel sharpening Jacob which I presume is a convex rounded bevel not a concave bevel as it comes off the grinding wheel? How do you create a rounded bevel and is it sharp? I had a look on You Tube to see if they had a video of it being created but no luck.
Regards Keith

 

[DTR]

I've not come across rounded bevel sharpening Jacob which I presume is a convex rounded bevel not a concave bevel as it comes off the grinding wheel? How do you create a rounded bevel and is it sharp? I had a look on You Tube to see if they had a video of it being created but no luck.
Regards Keith

Yes it is a convex bevel. Paul Sellers explains / demonstrates it here:

http://paulsellers.com/2012/01/sharpeni ... ro-bevels/

It is just as sharp as using a secondary bevel and will probably take the same amount of time once you've got the hang of it. However I am not convinced by Seller's claims that it will hold its edge longer. If you hone freehand then the bevel will naturally be convex anyway, whether it's the whole bevel or a secondary bevel.