Setting up a plane

[lee1596]

Hi, I was hoping for some advice, I've got an old record no5 that was inherited a d needs restoration, and a Faithfull no4 that I bought because it was cheap.
The Faithfull doesn't work (as expected) but even with sharpening I still can't make it take a shaving from flat wood. It will chamfer a corner but leave a very rough finish.
I don't know if it's a user issue, a sharpening issue or if something else is wrong, so I have reached the limit of what I can do to troubleshoot it. I will include photos of the issue, if anyone can advise it would be really appreciated. The plane will bit in to the wood and just stop dead. I can move the workbench before it will cut. This happens with any depth of cut. Yes I have swapped the screw type cap on the Faithfull for the record lever cap to make assembly/disassembly quicker while working on it.

 

[Jacob]

Perhaps:
adjust the frog so it is dead in line with the back of mouth so the blade gets max support
Set the cap iron a bit close to the edge about 1/16"
Make sure the cap is tight on to the blade behind the edge so no shavings could get stuck in the gap
Make sure the blade is sitting tight on the frog and back of mouth - if it isn't you might be able to see a gap from the side.
Do very fine trial cuts on the edge of a thin board - start with blade set back to no cut and adjust it to just cutting. it's easier and if you can do that you can work your way to wider cuts.
It might be the plane is fooked as Faithful can very variable from perfect to unusable.

 

[lee1596]

Perhaps:
adjust the frog so it is dead in line with the back of mouth so the blade gets max support
Set the cap iron a bit close to the edge about 1/16"
Make sure the cap is tight on to the blade behind the edge so no shavings could get stuck in the gap
Make sure the blade is sitting tight on the frog and back of mouth - if it isn't you might be able to see a gap from the side.
Do very fine trial cuts on the edge of a thin board - start with blade set back to no cut and adjust it to just cutting. it's easier and if you can do that you can work your way to wider cuts.
It might be the plane is fooked as Faithful can very variable from perfect to unusable.

Thanks. Other than a slight gap between the blade and frog I've done all of those. It still has the same problem.I don't know of the blade is sharp enough but I've spent about 1/2 trying to sharpening it and it's stopped getting sharper after 15 minutes. At this point I'm thinking just bin it and wait until someone sells a working plane on ebay, but I don't want to spend tons of mo ey if I don't have to. The trouble is I've never even held a plane that actually works and don't know anyone who has one so it's hard to know what is wrong.

 

[Jacob]

a slight gap between the blade and frog ...

That could be it. I means the blade can flex a bit and dig in as soon as it bites. It should sit tight, firm and close all the way from top of frog to back of mouth

 

[lee1596]

That could be it. I means the blade can flex a bit and dig in as soon as it bites. It should sit tight, firm and close all the way from top of frog to back of mouth

Do I basically just need a flat surface and abrasive to flatten the top of the frog? Or try with a quality blade first?

 

[Jacob]

Do I basically just need a flat surface and abrasive to flatten the top of the frog?

Not usually

Or try with a quality blade first?

Blades themselves the least likely cause of problems as long as they are sharp. Check that it isn't bent perhaps.
Depends what's causing it - e.g. it could be the way the blade sits on the tilt and depth adjusters if they stick out too far. I'd avoid flattening anything until you are sure of the cause. Have a good look down the face of the frog from top and again from through the mouth. Appy a straight edge, shine a torch etc.

 

[lee1596]

Depends what's causing it - e.g. it could be the way the blade sits on the tilt and depth adjusters if they stick out too far. I'd avoid flattening anything until you are sure of the cause.

I don't know enough to determine that or have access to one that is right for comparison so best bet might just be try to return it as faulty and hope someone puts a working plane on ebay fairly soon.

 

[Ttrees]

I'd have thought robots would be good at sharpening!

 

[rob1693]

Watch richard maguire or Paul sellers videos on plane tuning, richard also has an excellent video on mating the cap to the iron. you'll also need to learn what sharp is have you flattened the back of the iron have you took the bevel to a wire edge did you get to a burr full width on reverse side

 

[Rhossydd]

The trouble is I've never even held a plane that actually works and don't know anyone who has one so it's hard to know what is wrong.

I'd suggest your first thing to do is find a Men's shed or similar and get someone to show you how a plane is used and assess whether your efforts at sharpening your Record have been good enough.
Even an Axminster store may be able to help as the ones I've visited have had demonstration areas and staff that have a clue.

At this point I'm thinking just bin it and wait until someone sells a working plane on ebay,

If you don't know how to use one, that's unlikely to be helpful, even if someone does send one out perfectly adjusted which may be unlikely.

 

[kinverkid]

Don't shoot me down for this. But, is the blade in the right way around?

 

[Cabinetman]

Quote. "The plane will bit in to the wood and just stop dead. I can move the workbench before it will cut. This happens with any depth of cut."
If that is really the case and even with the blade fully withdrawn it bites into the wood this must be a casting fault, in that the sole behind the mouth sticks down further than the rest of the sole. Most unusual but easily tested with a steel rule.

 

[lee1596]

Quote. "The plane will bit in to the wood and just stop dead. I can move the workbench before it will cut. This happens with any depth of cut."
If that is really the case and even with the blade fully withdrawn it bites into the wood this must be a casting fault, in that the sole behind the mouth sticks down further than the rest of the sole. Most unusual but easily tested with a steel rule.

Sorry, I meant when the blade is out to any degree. Even making a paper thin shaving like I pictured in a previous reply it will stop dead after a few inches. With the blade fully retracted/outfit slides just fine

 

[lee1596]

Don't shoot me down for this. But, is the blade in the right way around?

That was my 1st thought as well to be fair, its exactly the sort of thing i would do, and I expect it is probably something very stupid I am doing wrong.

 

[rob1693]

Don't shoot me down for this. But, is the blade in the right way around?

Blades bevel down you can see in pics

 

[mudman]

Also make sure you aren't going against the grain. Spin your piece of wood around 180 degrees and see if that makes any difference.
Also, do you get the same issue when planing an edge?

 

[lee1596]

Also make sure you aren't going against the grain. Spin your piece of wood around 180 degrees and see if that makes any difference.
Also, do you get the same issue when planing an edge?

I did have the same issue along the edge, even on a corner there was more tearout than a blunt table saw blade. I suspect its the gap between the blade and frog at this point

 

[lee1596]

I'd suggest your first thing to do is find a Men's shed or similar and get someone to show you how a plane is used and assess whether your efforts at sharpening your Record have been good enough.
Even an Axminster store may be able to help as the ones I've visited have had demonstration areas and staff that have a clue.

If you don't know how to use one, that's unlikely to be helpful, even if someone does send one out perfectly adjusted which may be unlikely.

I've not started on the record yet, just the new Faithfull. I figured I would have an easier time working out how to set up a new tool than working out how to restore an old tool then set it up. The mens shed idea is a good one, I think there is one locally. I know what to do to use a plane, just not how to see what is wrong when one won't work, hopefully someone there might and will be as helpful as you lot are.
I feel like if someone who knows what it's supposed to be like got thier hands on the Faithfull I could get told either what is wrong or that its too poorly made to be capable of working. At least if I buy one that does work I know that all it can need is sharpening or adjusting if it stops working. For all I know this one could have faulty casting.

 

[simonridout]

My local Men's shed in West Cumbria has just the person to help you, very good at restoring and setting up old tools, just a bit OCD about it! I would be surprised if your local shed did not have his twin brother!

 

[Cabinetman]

Sorry, I meant when the blade is out to any degree. Even making a paper thin shaving like I pictured in a previous reply it will stop dead after a few inches. With the blade fully retracted/outfit slides just fine

Well all I can suggest is start with the blade withdrawn and gradually advance it downwards a tiny bit at a time till it starts to cut, I’m talking about a 20th of a turn on the wheel at a time. I know it will take a while but without being there that’s all you can do really. You could scribble a candle on the sole as well, it’s always a good idea.