selling wooden toys

[tsg]

Hello again,
I have been searching high and low for a "how to" regarding making and selling wooden toys, nothing special just cars, helicopters, boats... that kind of thing. I have read a lot of posts on here about this but most are quite old and I want to be up to date before I make a big mistake.
I'm not stupid (well not very ) but the amount of reading I have done through various websites has really confused me. Have I got to get every one of my own creations tested, whether that be by myself or otherwise, or can I just say that I made a similar one the other day and it was fine.
I think I understand most of the self certifying CE thing, but as each toy is individually made, no two are ever the same, and therefore 'that' toy will never have been tested.
I have given a number of them out to friends to test, with mixed results, my helicopter rotors have to be stronger and so I have made a few out of reclaimed 6mm ply. It does seem a lot sturdier.
Please have a look at the website I made to showcase the toys I have made, and feel free to either leave comments here or on there.

http://www.2shortplanks.co.uk/

As you will see, there is very little that can go wrong ( I hope ) so why have all the rules and regs made me so paranoid??
Any other would be toy makers out there please get in touch so that we can swap/exchange/steal ideas.
Thanks in advance

Paul

 

[Odo]

It's a lot more complicated than you might think.

At some point I was planning on doing the same with some of the things I had made, phoned up trading standards and the woman I spoke to gave me a massive list of things that need to be taken into account.

I suggest you get in contact with them, they are a hive of knowledge with this kind of thing.

 

[tomatwark]

You will need CE marking to sell them, especially if you are selling online to people you do not know.

Also making them out of reclaimed wood may also be a problem as the timber type may vary, which may alter the CE mark and if it is reclaimed and has been finished in some way there maybe residual stuff in the grain which could be poisonous.

I would certainly give trading standards a ring before you sell anything .

Also you will need product liability insurance as well.

Tom

 

[loftyhermes]

UK law states that any toy sold must conform to BS EN71 1 -3.
see here for the full info. https://www.gov.uk/toy-manufacturers-an ... sibilities
But basically it's the following,
In the UK the law says that “any product or material designed or clearly intended for use in play by children of less than 14 years of age” with the explanation that “If it looks like a toy and is made with child appeal it is a toy”
So, if you make “toys” that you sell, you have a responsibility to get them CE marked. You can self certify or get your toy tested by a testing house.
Selling unmarked toys is a criminal offence and can result in fines of up to £5000 or imprisonment, so it really isn’t worth putting your head in the sand and ignoring it.

 

[graduate_owner]

I was browsing through some old woodworking magazines last week, and I came upon an article updating readers on the current (i.e. as it was then - about 1995 ! !) regulations. It was enough to put me right off the idea, and I expect the Eurocrats in Brussels have added bucketloads of regulations since then. I think a discussion with trading standards would be a very sensible way to start. Avoiding any materials that you cannot guarantee with a paper trail is another worthwhile idea - no recycled or reclaimed materials. You really need the paper trail to 'cover your ar*e' in case of issues further down the line, then you can justifiably claim that all materials were appropriate for the purpose. Keep all receipts.

K

 

[tsg]

Thanks for all the advice, I was fully aware that it wouldn't be easy regarding the CE mark but it really does appear that it is not going to be worth the effort. I hadn't even considered the problems using reclaimed woods, if every part of every toy has to have a pedigree certificate the costs wood soon spiral.
I really enjoy making these toys for my grand children and I had hoped to make a few to sell as well but I will have to come up with another idea. I've just ordered the mechanism for a clock so we will have to see how that works out.
I will keep with the reclaimed timber theme as I have just got hold of an old bed frame with a chunky head board. I've scratched some of the paint off and I'm pretty sure it is beech. Weighs a ton so will have fun cutting it down and cleaning it up. Maybe some fancy end grain chopping boards are in order
Thanks again

Paul

 

[Smithy]

Hi

I am interested in selling wooden toys and hope to concentrate on the Christmas markets this year. I appreciate that the standards that apply in Europe are designed to protect the health of children and should be adhered to. To do this we must be totally convinced that the materials we use must meet the required standard and I assume we can self declare that our toys are safe. Here in France I buy paint that is marked as safe for childrens toys (EN71-3), which as previously stated is a European standard. Where I think it becomes difficult is the add ons. In my case the cord I use for pull along toys and the rubber I use for the feet of the push along ducks.

Is it possible that any potential toymakers on this forum could pool their resources in finding materials that meet the required standard. I think it is a shame if potential toy makers look at the regulations and decide to give up before they have started. I believe there is a market for artisan made wooden toys. If we all give up we are playing into the hands of the foreign multi nationals.

I hope this year to make simple wooden toys with the minimum of add ons and try to find materials that come with a declaration that they are child safe so that I can self declare that my toys are child safe and I can apply the CE mark.

Mike.

 

[beech1948]

I have just read the British Standard and EU regulations cover to cover. My interest was in using my CNC machine to create a number of wooden painted toys.

The legislation is aimed at big business and does apply to small business.

The issue is that to get into this biz you need to keep detailed and thorough records and lots of them. In themselves they do not appear onerous and the details could be copied from the legislation and turned into a check list which could be used as the internal assessment. Maybe 60 pages max

Self certification is possible.

For those who just gave up try doing the reading and then see what you feel as it looks more possible then the above messages indicate.

Al

 

[Smithy]

Hi Al

I agree with you. I am sure it can be done. As an ex civil servant I appreciate that goverment publications can be daunting. But when you cut through the dressing (polite term) the facts can be found. As you stated you need to keep exemplary records/paper trail and be sure of your source. I am thinking of a file for each toy I make with details of all materials used and where sourced and there suitability for toys.

I hope this thread continues.

Mike

 

[Smithy]

Hi
I have just found a CE self certification support group on Facebook. It looks a great place to answer questions on the suitability/availability of child safe products.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fieldpowe ... ge?fref=ts

Mike

 

[tsg]

Mike, I hope this thread continues as well, as just knowing that there are others out there trying to do the same thing gives me a little hope.
As far as I am aware all the materials I use are child friendly.
The paints are acrylic gloss from Baker Ross which carry the CE mark, and the lacquer is acrylic lacquer from Mylands advertised as food safe.
I have been using standard wood glue which is water based and I assume is safe - I will be checking tomorrow.
My main problem is how do you certify the wood itself as being safe? I know all mine is reclaimed, but even if I bought it how can I know. Would this mean that I would have to have a sample of each piece of wood tested for any chemicals that may be found in it? If this is the case I'm on another downer already!
And the thought of having a 60 page file for each and every toy that is worth maybe £5 - £10 on a good day seems to make it a non starter on it's own. Serious downer. Time to speak with trading standards for the definitive answer.
Paul

 

[Smithy]

Hi Paul
Good luck with Trading Standards. I am glad you are persevering. I thought that a file for each toy would consist of a breakdown of the materials, thier origin, make up and a and proof of their child safety. In the case of wooden toys I would have thought that other materials would be minimal. I will keep on trawling the net and hope that between us we can find the answers.
Mike

 

[beech1948]

And the thought of having a 60 page file for each and every toy that is worth maybe £5 - £10 on a good day seems to make it a non starter on it's own. Serious downer. Time to speak with trading standards for the definitive answer.
Paul

P. You got slightly the wrong end of the stick. The guestimated 60 pages is per production run no matter if it runs for 5 yrs. The point of the legislation is posterior covering hence the records and the provision of the " wan't me it was him" defence. So if all your components are CE labelled, come with a BS EN71 compliance certificate then you are OK.

Using recovered wood means you broadly have two choices a) You know the source of the materials recovery or b) you do not. In one case (a) you may be able to show that material came from non-chemical infested source inc outdoor green/brown treatments and if you do some inspection then OK in (b) you may have to test at least for the minimums named against specific chemicals in the EU legisation; there are about 7 of these. High school level chemistry would suffice to test for presence and if present then don't use.

Remember the bureaucrats will gold plate everything since its not their cash.

Keep in touch
Al

 

[Lee J]

I had a horrible thought yesterday. I've been planning some big chunky 3 piece jigsaw teddy bears to sell at craft fairs. these are aimed at very young kiddies. Cut a teddy bear shape out of 12mm MDF using the scroll saw, then cut it up into 3 pieces to create a jigsaw. Then paint it with child friendly paints in lovely bright colours.

Only thing is, when that kiddy puts a piece into his/her mouth they're chewing on MDF which is probably really bad for them. I'd never even considered it until yesterday! Good job I've not made any yet let alone sold any!

I figured 12mm pine would be a better option.

 

[marcros]

early learning centre seem to use birch ply for a lot of their toys. I would have thought that pine would do nicely though- may even get floorboards that are about the right thickness, ready planed and readily available (new of course).

 

[Waka]

I had a horrible thought yesterday. I've been planning some big chunky 3 piece jigsaw teddy bears to sell at craft fairs. these are aimed at very young kiddies. Cut a teddy bear shape out of 12mm MDF using the scroll saw, then cut it up into 3 pieces to create a jigsaw. Then paint it with child friendly paints in lovely bright colours.

Only thing is, when that kiddy puts a piece into his/her mouth they're chewing on MDF which is probably really bad for them. I'd never even considered it until yesterday! Good job I've not made any yet let alone sold any!

I figured 12mm pine would be a better option.

I've made a load of these out of pine and treated them with food safe oil.

 

[tsg]

I have been doing a lot more research on the net, but have been unable to speak to anyone at Trading Standards that can help so I have emailed them and I am awaiting their reply.
My only concern at this time is the chemical analysis part of EN71. I have asked them if I can assume that any natural pine that I buy from a reputable seller is free of any of the prohibited or restricted chemicals as pine has been tested previously and found to be safe. If I self certify based on that assumption have I shown due diligence if it transpires that chemicals were present.
I have also asked about the technical file, and that because all of my toys are basically the same, ie cut from a piece of pine, with either wheels, rotors, propellers, and a few other bits added, can I keep just one file for the lot.
I will update when I get a meaningful reply.
I think that if the answer to both questions is yes, I will be ready to go. Feeling very optimistic now, just waiting for them to say no to put me back on a low. However, if we can't assume that newly bought wood is "clean" and chemical free I don't see how anyone can make wooden toys.
Paul

 

[Gary Morris]

Is it similar to 'due dillegance' - keeping a record of critical control points?

Gary

 

[deserter]

Not wanting to split hairs, but it may be important.

If the timber your referring to as pine is the white wood which is readily available at most builders yards/DIY stores, then you would be very unlikely to be buying pine. At best it will be fir but more likely spruce. But in either case you will have no way to identify the species or guarantee that different purchases are the same.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[tsg]

Doh..when I say pine, what i mean is any of the cheap s**t you get at B&Q or others. You are quite right, maybe I should have made myself a bit clearer, but I will wait to hear back from Trading Standards.
Let's face it, even spruce and fir should be free of dangerous chemicals. Who can tell the difference when it's cut, planed, and served up in plastic?
All I am concerned about is certifying that any wood (fir/pine/spruce/oak/walnut/ebony) that I use is safe for kids toys. If wood is inherently dangerous I will give up, and commit suicide by eating one of my toys!!!!!
Sorry, getting a bit frustrated by the laws of this great nation and their partners.
Paul

due dil·i·gence
Noun
Reasonable steps taken by a person in order to satisfy a legal requirement, esp. in buying or selling something.