Self employment

[Designer1]

Hello,

Having recently going self employed at the middle of this year, I'm a little underwhelmed at how much I've done, i.e. not enough. I've had around 4 jobs completed and done, 3 of which were from MyBuilder. How long did it take everyone else to build up a constant flow of work?

I currently do furniture and the like, I enjoy this sort of work as it's got an element of maths, design and practical. I was thinking of starting to advertise and make kitchens. E.g. design it, make it and then hire a fitter to install it. But with kitchens not being in my portfolio shall we say, I'm a bit apprehensive.

The cabinets don't look too different to a fitted wardrobe at face value, however I'm sure there are bold differences I'm non the wiser of.

Just wanted everyone's advice as it sometimes helps to have a second/third/fourth etc opinion/set of eyes.

Tldr; how long to build up a customer base

Tldr; are kitchens harder to make than a fitted wardrobe

Thanks,
Designer1

 

[Doug71]

The best advertising is word of mouth, make a good job for someone and they will recommend you to someone else.

It's all about finding the right kind of customers as well, you need ones who have some money and are willing to pay for you to make a decent job. It's never good working on budget jobs as there will always be problems down the line.

It is a good idea if you can diversify a bit, it seems that every man and his dog are doing painted MDF built ins since track saws became popular.

Yes building a kitchen cabinet is basically the same as building a wardrobe but there is a lot more to the whole kitchen thing. One thing you need is plenty of space for storing them.

I'm getting lazy in my old age, I now prefer jobs where people just bring me measurements and I make it, the whole design side of things can swallow up loads of time and is hard to charge for.

 

[johnnyb]

building up a customer base can be a long process and also a bit of a difficult one. the customers I had at your stage I wouldn't work for now.( after 7 or 8 years)its just that when your starting you need to survive when your experienced you need to thrive. built in stuff I've always found a bit of a pain as it usually needs help to install and people compare prices with IKEA Etal.
also they need a high standard of finish.

 

[Designer1]

I have had a few people recommend me and leave reviews etc, just trying to build up the momentum.

Yes the best customers are the ones that pay well and say do it properly. I've had a few people asking for just cheap things, e.g. wanting cabinet doors for £40. Needless to say when they get the quote they don't reply...

I quite like the built ins mainly because they're a challenge haha, keeps me occupied.

I don't mind the design as it also makes my cutlists and bill of materials. Time saved writing cutlists is spent designing instead. Swings and roundabouts.

Kitchens are again on my list because of the scale and challenge.

It is quite hard to charge for design yes. I just chuck it in with the day rate I charge as an 'overhead' and do it that way of charging outright.

One thing I was thinking of doing was doing designs for joiners, e.g. they send the dimensions over and I cad design it and give images, cutlist and bill of materials etc. Charge around the £25 mark and see how it goes. Some charge around £40 but they use Fusion 360 I think. I'm on ye old SketchUp. Nothing wrong with it I love it, only gripe is renderings but it's also much wallet friendly.

 

[Designer1]

Yes it is frustrating when someone says "but IKEA only charge £250 per wardrobe you want £1000". Go to IKEA then

 

[johnnyb]

kitchens are OK but once again are usually a team effort and are tricky to achieve the top end money for unless you specialise and advertise in the appropriate way.

 

[Jacob]

Hello,

Having recently going self employed at the middle of this year, I'm a little underwhelmed at how much I've done, i.e. not enough. I've had around 4 jobs completed and done, 3 of which were from MyBuilder. How long did it take everyone else to build up a constant flow of work?

I currently do furniture and the like, I enjoy this sort of work as it's got an element of maths, design and practical. I was thinking of starting to advertise and make kitchens. E.g. design it, make it and then hire a fitter to install it. But with kitchens not being in my portfolio shall we say, I'm a bit apprehensive.

The cabinets don't look too different to a fitted wardrobe at face value, however I'm sure there are bold differences I'm non the wiser of.

Just wanted everyone's advice as it sometimes helps to have a second/third/fourth etc opinion/set of eyes.

Tldr; how long to build up a customer base

Tldr; are kitchens harder to make than a fitted wardrobe

Thanks,
Designer1

No prob getting a constant flow of work if your stuff is good but an ad or two could be useful. Start with free ones. They say only 5% of advertising work but you never know which 5% - or when, they may come back years later.
Much bigger problem is getting a constant flow of profit - ideally price should be as high as possible such that your waiting list is very short, but not too short!
If you find yourself in a competitive pricing situation always go high and let the others have it. Who wants to be cheapest?

 

[Designer1]

Facebook and the like get a fair hammering with advertising. Yes the flow is tricky. Building it up is the key I think, like trying to start a train.

With the kitchens I would most likely outsource the fitting, I'd build the cabinets. I could outsource the design too but what's the point if I can do it myself. Get a few site visits done, get some cutlists sent off. Assemble them and then leave the rest to the kind kitchen fitter that's brave enough to fit my work

 

[johnnyb]

I'm sounding a bit negative but I can and have done most types of work to make money. some that seem high end( like hand made kitchens) would be difficult for a single craftsmen to do in entirety.
doing sensitive restoration for people who care is my favourite. I often get jobs from other people like painters many of whom are constantly working on old houses for wealthy customers.

 

[Adam W.]

Advertising in the parish magazine was a winner for me and I also had some very nice cards made which were printed on quality card. It made a difference, as it gave an instant feeling of a quality product. I also only worked for people with money and gave them good service with a fair price.

Clean and smart, polite and on time was my motto.

 

[Ollie78]

Takes a while and you may never have totally consistent work. Normally too much at once then not enough for a bit.
As others have said, word of mouth is the best way. I don't advertise at all anymore and manage to find enough to do.

Remember not to underprice yourself, and be prepared to say no.

Ollie

 

[Designer1]

Restoration is beyond my skillset at the moment. I'd outsource the spraying, much easier

 

[Designer1]

Business cards are actually on the way as we speak. Had some double sided ones made up in a F&B cream with logos on etc. Give a few to customers to pass round after I've done work for them.

Saying no seems to be something I've had to do a fair bit just recently. I reviewed my finances and cannot possibly charge any lower. So that's their problem not mine.

As sarcastic as it sounds, ultimately I'm there to make a living, I'm not there to do things for free to benefit someone the price of a few pizzas.

 

[johnnyb]

I have great success with rated people tbh. I find that there is a very obvious skill gap. I usually get jobs extremely cheaply as noone wants joiner jobs. and often customers have been let down by tradesmen( often many times) I can and do make £300-400 a day fitting doors but it's hard work. diversify and see what flies. literally anything connected with roofs is fairly simple and extremely profitable. sashwork is well trodden but easier than built ins( finishwise)

 

[akirk]

Any customer who recommends someone for whom you then work - give the original customer a bottle of champagne (can cost as little as £10-£12 at Aldi) it is amazing how much marketing people will do for you for a bottle of champagne

 

[johnnyb]

my god your from York. loads of old buildings all with sash windows. it's like woodwork heaven.

 

[Designer1]

I might have a look at rated people. I'm going to definitely try the cad and kitchen services and see what flies as you say.

I give hampers to customers that ask for built ins etc, they prove very popular. Just filled with goodies etc.

Yes haha, there's absolutely loads of sash windows in town. Always quite well kept too which is nice to see.

 

[dzj]

Most younger fellas here start out working for a larger shop. They acquire experience, knowledge and the bosses might pass on
the smaller jobs to them, which they do in their spare time. They slowly build up their network of clients while having a reliable source
of income. Usually after 5-6 years they go on their own.
Like you, I started out self employed from day one. Looking back, I think it probably wasn't the best choice I made.
Your circumstances are probably very different than mine, so pay no attention.

 

[doctor Bob]

I think you need to understand kitchen appliances and installation of appliances, before you take on a kitchen.
Trends are important in the kitchen world.
I mainly do kitchens, I like the size of kitchen projects.
Just be aware invariably you are installing a kitchen following building works, so you will need to supply service drawings. Also expect delays, we regularly store a kitchen for up to 3 months.

 

[johnnyb]

there well kept because the whole place smells of brass. I always reckoned that the popularity of Peter millard et al belied the fact that many mdf cabinets are DIY jobs. and people DIY it from youtube. I'd be more convinced of success making quality furniture in York especially traditional styles. it's never been a large moneyspinner( making mdf alcoves etc)