Scrub Plane

[paulc]

Hello Forum,

Unfortunately, the conversion of the old wooden coffin bodied plane I had into a scrub was not to be, as its beyond repair. I am thinking of getting the wooden Scrub plane made by ECE with white beech sole ECE-nr. 106S, from Dieter Schmid - Fine Tools, but I'm a bit concerned with this handle at the front business, Are they easy to use?

Also I only have a waterstone for sharpening my blades at present , can I sharpen a cambered blade on it?

I have just ordered a stanley foreplane from D&M tools would it be possible/advisable to use a cambered blade in this plane as an alternative to buying a scrub?

So many questions as always, maybe soon I'll know enough to answer a few. Thanks , paulc.

 

[dchenard]

Hello Forum,

Unfortunately, the conversion of the old wooden coffin bodied plane I had into a scrub was not to be, as its beyond repair. I am thinking of getting the wooden Scrub plane made by ECE with white beech sole ECE-nr. 106S, from Dieter Schmid - Fine Tools, but I'm a bit concerned with this handle at the front business, Are they easy to use?

Also I only have a waterstone for sharpening my blades at present , can I sharpen a cambered blade on it?

I have just ordered a stanley foreplane from D&M tools would it be possible/advisable to use a cambered blade in this plane as an alternative to buying a scrub?

So many questions as always, maybe soon I'll know enough to answer a few. Thanks , paulc.

I have no experience with the ECE, so I can't make any comments on it.

Just about any Stanley bench plane can be converted to a scrub by opening the mouth and grinding then honing a good camber on the iron. And, yes, it can be done on a watestone, even freehand (my preference).

I own a Veritas scrub, and bought an inexpensive Groz jack plane that I converted to a "half-scrub", i.e. I didn't put as severe a camber on it given that I already have a scrub. I use the Groz to take off the high spots left by the scrub, before getting out the jointer. Had I not had a scrub already I would have put a more pronounced camber on the Groz.

HTH,

DC

 

[MarcW]

Hello Forum,

Unfortunately, the conversion of the old wooden coffin bodied plane I had into a scrub was not to be, as its beyond repair. I am thinking of getting the wooden Scrub plane made by ECE with white beech sole ECE-nr. 106S, from Dieter Schmid - Fine Tools, but I'm a bit concerned with this handle at the front business, Are they easy to use?

Also I only have a waterstone for sharpening my blades at present , can I sharpen a cambered blade on it?

I have just ordered a stanley foreplane from D&M tools would it be possible/advisable to use a cambered blade in this plane as an alternative to buying a scrub?

So many questions as always, maybe soon I'll know enough to answer a few. Thanks , paulc.

Hi Paul,

If you speak German, I recommend you read Friedrich Kollenrott's guide on sharpening which you will find on the Forum site of Dieter Schmid. You can perfectly sharpen the camber of a scrub plane blade on a waterstone.

There's a big difference using a scrub or a fore plane to flatten rough sawn boards. I prefer using a #6 metal plane with a cambered edge (1,6 mm at the edges higher than in the centre). I take of high spots with the scrub. So I recommend you buy both the ECE scrub and the blade.

The horn of the German style plane makes no problem of handling, just a thing of learning how to hold. Thousands of folks for hundred of years enjoyed it :lol: well as much as one can speak of fun when earning money.

Regards,

Marc

 

[Alf]

Also I only have a waterstone for sharpening my blades at present , can I sharpen a cambered blade on it?

Yep

I have just ordered a stanley foreplane from D&M tools would it be possible/advisable to use a cambered blade in this plane as an alternative to buying a scrub?

Erm... is it too late to cancel the order...? :? Putting aside the dubious state of the modern Stanley plane, even the "heavy scrub" aficionados might feel a #6 is a little large for the job.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Paul

Chris Schwaz makes the claim in his DVD that the scrub plane is not really a furniture making tool but more of a site carpenter's tool. He suggests a fore plane with very cambered blade and a cut depth of about 6 thou.
I tried this and it works a treat - got an old record fore off ebay for about £30

I have used waterstones for years and all my bench planes have a cambered blade (apart from bevel-up), so no problems there

 

[Paul Chapman]

even the "heavy scrub" aficionados might feel a #6 is a little large for the job.

Hi Paul,

I agree - there's a lot to be said for a somewhat smaller plane for initial scrub work. If it will help, I'll post some pictures later today of my "Frampton Special" scrub plane (as I call it ), which is a plane modified by Alf and which I bought from her. It's about the size of a #3 and works really well.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[MarcW]

Paul,

I'd like to see your Frampton special one :mrgreen:

Seriously... I use a LN #6 and I'm convinced it is the ultimate tool for the job. So I'd like to know how a smaller bench plane performs.

Marc,

Thankful for all advice :wink:

 

[Pekka Huhta]

I am thinking of getting the wooden Scrub plane made by ECE with white beech sole ECE-nr. 106S, from Dieter Schmid - Fine Tools, but I'm a bit concerned with this handle at the front business, Are they easy to use?

I think that you can actually get more effort on the planing with the horn than with just a coffin plane. As the local "tool dialect" over here leans quite heavily on the german-style planes they are very common and I have gotten used to them. You actually get more relaxed hold on the plane and can use your left hand more efficiently than on a coffin-shaped plane, and for some points even more efficiently than on a metal plane with a knob.

Your left hand just rests nicely on the horn, thumb on the back and the other fingers on the side/front. The grip is very relaxed, and you can get your left hand to aid pushing quite effectively.

I made a new horn to a plane just a while ago, here are a few photos of the process. I prefer to make the horn also suited for left-hand work, as I work ambidextrously for most of the time. As you can see from the first pic, most of the horns are originally molded for left hand only.





Here are the tools used for the whole task:





Pekka

 

[bugbear]

I made a new horn to a plane just a while ago, here are a few photos of the process.

MAGNIFICENT!! This needs putting somewhere permanent with captions/writeup.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul,

I'd like to see your Frampton special one :mrgreen:

I have to dash out for an hour or so but will post some pictures later :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[paulc]

Thanks for all the replies, extremely helpful as ever.

Alf could you possibly expand on 'the dubious nature' of the modern Stanley plane and recommend a similarly priced no. 6 of better quality.

Thanks again . paulc.

 

[Adam]

MAGNIFICENT!! BugBear

Agreed. Equally interesting to me is the construction of that wall behind.

Adam

 

[Alf]

Really wish I'd taken a pic of that pseudo scrub before I cleaned it up now, but you can get an idea here fwiw.

Paul, as far as the Stanley's of modern manufacture go, they simply aren't very well made. The machining's pretty rough, the handles are (blurgh) plastic, and you can get an older (better) one cheaper. Go forth to this page, pick a few dealers with more sensible prices (like not Tony Murland, Tool Bazaar etc) and enquire of them if they have a suitable #6 for a user about their person. For all I know you can get a reconditioned one from Ray Iles for less than a new one, and that'll have had it's sole ground flat.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Nice to see someone else using a axe to do the rough forming 8) That looks like quite an old tool there pekka

Sevearal of my plane's have the continental style front horn and I find it 100% ok to use, even if your pulling towards you

 

[bugbear]

For all I know you can get a reconditioned one from Ray Iles for less than a new one, and that'll have had it's sole ground flat.

Cheers, Alf

I don't understand this obsession with flatness. A wise person on a forum said

Mind you I thought you were going to say there was something inherantly creepy and slightly morally wrong with this obsession with "flat" and I was about to whole-heartedly agree.

BugBear (tongue firmly in cheek)

 

[Alf]

Smart**** :lol: My point was you could get one of better spec for less money. :roll:

Now excuse me, it's time for the weekly dusting of the granite surface plate. A feather duster held lightly and wafted at a minimum distance of 152.01mm above the surface (angle approximately 42.3°) so as to encourage the dust to float away without actually impairing the flatness of the surface by wiping any atoms across it... :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

Well Alf beat me to it, but to give you an idea of its size, here's the "Frampton Special" alongside a Clifton #3

And here are the components

All very simple but it works really well. I normally favour large, heavy planes but this scrub plane is small and light. I've used it on really tough woods like oak and it removes wood really fast. I've concluded that for initial work on rough, sawn timber the lack of resistance of a small scrub plane is of real benefit. I first tried one out at Philly's Big Bash last year. Here's a picture pinched from his website (hope you don't mind, Philly)

In the background you can see a Veritas scrub plane and next to that a wooden jack. What seemed to work very well was to initially go over the wood quite aggressively with the metal scrub, using it at about 45 degrees, then go over it with the wooden jack (which also had a cambered blade) along the grain. Then to smooth it with a normal jointer plane.

I don't yet have a wooden jack but I'm looking and that will be next on my list. They are relatively plentiful in second-hand shops.

My experience is that using a longer, heavier plane for the initial scrub work is much harder and I would go for the smaller plane every time.

Hope this helps,

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Paul Chapman wrote:

I don't yet have a wooden jack but I'm looking and that will be next on my list. They are relatively plentiful in second-hand shops.

Paul - a decent wooden jack is a 'must have' I think and will take off a huge amount of timber without too much effort.....that said I wouldn't mind that nice shiny big plane on Philly's bench next to the walnut he's planing :wink: :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

I wouldn't mind that nice shiny big plane on Philly's bench next to the walnut he's planing :wink: :lol:

Yes, very nice - I had a go with it at the Big Bash and it was excellent. But I'm rather disappointed that you didn't notice my subtle gloat with my new Clifton #3 which I picked up at Ally Pally for a bargain price :wink: :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[aldel]

I think I may receive some flak so I have my tin hat on but I have to say that woodwork "flat" is not the same as metalwork "flat".

I see no wrong with flattening a plane sole but not obsessively to thous of an inch. I have examined the planes used by some well respected and very skilled craftsmen and found that bog standard either Records or Stanleys are the norm and all had obvious hollows along and across the soles. Blades are not ground to particular angles and not honed on fancy water stones yet they are plenty sharp with a quick trip up and down on oil stones.
Their work produced with these every day tools in hard and softwoods in all styles including heritage and church renovations etc is superb.
I have taken some of my Veritas planes for them to try and the general reply is that yes, very well made but we prefer our own thank you.
To the hobbyist, part of the pleasure is in owning quality tools that are capable of out-performing our skills. My guess is that the number of cabinet makers who work to the very highest standard in exotic woods do require highly tuned and expensive planes but they are in the extreme minority.
We all aspire to owning the best and if you can afford it then great.
The danger is that we convince beginners that if the sole is not dead flat or the blade not perfectly ground or honed then they are wasting their time.
This is a myth and just not true as I have seen for myself.
To know how and why to tune a plane is important but for the beginner a sharp plane and practice is all that is required. The skill is in the user not the tool.

Aaaaaah that's better. :shock: