Saw stop ( USA )

[Bingy man]

The inventor went to all the machine makers in the US when he came up with the device. They didn't want anything to do with it because among other things, it would require spending money on new tooling to make, felt it would make them liable if someone got hurt with older saws without the device and were not required to so why bother. Then he set up his own company and started to sell them himself. Defended his patents when Bosch tried to make a saw similar to his only after they were successfully sued by a man that cut off some fingers. There is more but that is some of it.

Pete

I did not know this , as I said I came across the sawstop while reviewing saw tables in general several years ago , of course I was aware of kick back but that was about it . Had no intentions of getting my hand anywhere near the blade but I thought just in case it would be worth the extra cost . I even factored in a new blade and cartridge but alas it was not to be .someone earlier said that the uk is ahead of the game when it comes to machinery safety but usa had the sawstop ahead of us . Given those statistics on injuries I guess they need it more but it should be available to all as said by many - to be used in conjunction with safe working practices and environments not instead of . There will always be the risk of children entering the workshop when your back is turned , or even adults with learning difficulties or that minority of people who are just curious or plain nosey that can wander in turn a switch on without thought of what it’s connected to . A few have used the safety features in cars to make their point which is fair enough tbh but all the safety features in the world won’t help you if you drive at 100+ mph head on into another car . They are there to limit the likelihood of serious injury or death when the vehicle is driven responsibly . Anyone pick up the story of the manager jailed for 7 years because he sent his employee into a industrial shredder to work on it and the machine was subsequently turned on - game over for the unfortunate employee. If a type of saw stop technology was fitted to that machine he may well have been badly injured but would he still be alive .. We all need safety devices even if we feel we don’t need them it a case of WHAT IF .. with the potential for driverless cars and lorries in the near future perhaps we all need to be prepared for a WHAT IF scenario ..

 

[Inspector]

Bingy man I predict that if the US mandates the flesh detecting or hand proximity to blade technology for all table saws sold there that it won't be all that long before they become commonplace in the UK. Not because your rule makers will mandate it but because the US is the largest saw market in the world and manufactures supplying them with saws are likely not going to make the same saws without the technology installed for the rest of the world. In the same way cars all come with power windows and not hand cranked anymore. Cheaper to have one product and no options because it is easier to inventory one part rather than two. It won't make Mr. Argue happy but fossils don't count for much in the eyes of the manufacturing world.

Pete

 

[Bingy man]

Hopefully your right , my thoughts are for the unfortunate whose only exposure to woodwork is u tube , they don’t have the valuable knowledge that you get from a forum like this , where you get 2nd 3rd and 4th etc opinions in what you see and hear on other social media platforms . We can make an informed decision on the best and safest ways to work and hopefully not find out the hard way ..

 

[Molynoox]

Bingy man I predict that if the US mandates the flesh detecting or hand proximity to blade technology for all table saws sold there that it won't be all that long before they become commonplace in the UK. Not because your rule makers will mandate it but because the US is the largest saw market in the world and manufactures supplying them with saws are likely not going to make the same saws without the technology installed for the rest of the world. In the same way cars all come with power windows and not hand cranked anymore. Cheaper to have one product and no options because it is easier to inventory one part rather than two. It won't make Mr. Argue happy but fossils don't count for much in the eyes of the manufacturing world.

Pete

Most stuff migrates across here at some point so I agree with your prediction.
It would be brilliant if it could be on circular saws too but it's probably not possible. Bulky mechanism, and needs to be earthed etc

Martin

 

[Inspector]

Most stuff migrates across here at some point so I agree with your prediction.
It would be brilliant if it could be on circular saws too but it's probably not possible. Bulky mechanism, and needs to be earthed etc

Martin

I have seen a YouTube in the past where a couple guys had a blade brake circular saw. I don't remember the details but I believe it worked for kickbacks based one the direction or inertia change. Can't find it so if you want more you'll have to dig around for it.

Pete

It was American so you won't find any push sticks being used.

 

[Molynoox]

I have seen a YouTube in the past where a couple guys had a blade brake circular saw. I don't remember the details but I believe it worked for kickbacks based one the direction or inertia change. Can't find it so if you want more you'll have to dig around for it.

Pete

It was American so you won't find any push sticks being used.

Cheers interesting.
I think I'm pretty safe with that sort of tool now as I use them everyday but I've only learned that through experience and in reality probably a number of close calls. I reckon that initial learning phase is where the most benefit would be, but nobody is immune, no matter how experienced. IMO

Martin

 

[Agent_zed]

Just to add a specific example... my secondary school CDT teacher cut off part of his finger (successfully re-attached) on a table saw. The problem was he was wearing bi-focal glasses and went to move something across the sawbench and misjudged the distance and caught the sawblade. Should he have used a pushstick to prod the workpiece out of the way, or stop the machine before moving anything, probably but that's not what people do if they think the workpiece is a safe distance from the saw blade. Sawstop system would have meant a trip to the firstaid box and having to fill in an accident report, rather than a trip to surgery, numerous checkups, days off work, weeks/months of recovery, painkillers etc etc.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I entirely agree with Jacob about 2 push sticks, indeed I think it was Jacob himself who convinced me that one was not enough. It’s awkward at first, but it’s easy to master.
However I entirely disagree with Jacob about sawstop. I think it’s a brilliant technology and should be on all saws. It’s a shame that in Europe it is only available on one of those wobbly leg Festool site saws. I’ve got the Festool CMS table, and it was a massive waste of money, can’t get extension tables flat,,and legs wobble like a wobbly jelly.

 

[John Brown]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of mandating safety devices for table saws in a country where crazy people are allowed to buy semi-automatic weapons a bit weird? Isn't there something in the constitution about the right to sever your own hand?

 

[Doug71]

Just to add a specific example... my secondary school CDT teacher cut off part of his finger (successfully re-attached) on a table saw. The problem was he was wearing bi-focal glasses and went to move something across the sawbench and misjudged the distance and caught the sawblade. Should he have used a pushstick to prod the workpiece out of the way, or stop the machine before moving anything, probably but that's not what people do if they think the workpiece is a safe distance from the saw blade. Sawstop system would have meant a trip to the firstaid box and having to fill in an accident report, rather than a trip to surgery, numerous checkups, days off work, weeks/months of recovery, painkillers etc etc.

I fell off a step ladder last year because I was wearing bi-focal safety glasses. I was working off two step ladders and was stepping across from one to the other when I totally missed the step, realised I had been looking through the magnified part of the glasses so the step looked closer No serious injuries just a few bruises but it stopped me wearing bi-focals.

 

[Spectric]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of mandating safety devices for table saws in a country where crazy people are allowed to buy semi-automatic weapons a bit weird?

Yes looking at it from that perspective it does seem strange, never heard of someone undertaking mass murder with a table saw.

 

[Inspector]

Yes looking at it from that perspective it does seem strange, never heard of someone undertaking mass murder with a table saw.

Might want one to cut up the bodies.

Pete

 

[mudman]

Might want one to cut up the bodies.

Pete

A band saw would be better.

 

[Bingy man]

I entirely agree with Jacob about 2 push sticks, indeed I think it was Jacob himself who convinced me that one was not enough. It’s awkward at first, but it’s easy to master.
However I entirely disagree with Jacob about sawstop. I think it’s a brilliant technology and should be on all saws. It’s a shame that in Europe it is only available on one of those wobbly leg Festool site saws. I’ve got the Festool CMS table, and it was a massive waste of money, can’t get extension tables flat,,and legs wobble like a wobbly jelly.

For the amount you pay for festool gear it should be rock solid .

 

[Bruce Mack]

Am I the only one who finds the idea of mandating safety devices for table saws in a country where crazy people are allowed to buy semi-automatic weapons a bit weird? Isn't there something in the constitution about the right to sever your own hand?

Sadly, we in the U.S. have bought into the silliness that the Second Amendment applies to individuals. Consequently, firearms are used far more often for suicide than self-protection. However, we also were the first country to mandate airbags in new cars in 1998. We are weird but passionately so.
Almost everyone who owns a Sawstop is pleased with its excellent build quality and extolls its reliability in saving fingers. I would own one except for delivery and setup in my farmland home adding $1000s to the cost. I use the tablesaw mostly for precise crosscuts in my small projects and I have just added the European pushstick to my safety gear. At 79, I think I have a greater chance of severe disability from a fall downstairs than from my tablesaw .

 

[Cabinetman]

After visiting for long periods I can concur that Americans definitely are a conundrum and yes definitely passionate about things. The depth of knowledge of some people in esoteric things catches me out all the time, along with their interest in new things, and they do seem to love hearing about OLD England.
And please don’t fall down the stairs!
From Ian in wonderful snowy Pennsylvania

 

[Trextr7monkey]

The silly sod isn't using push sticks!
He is demonstrating and cultivating the worst and most stupid sort of sort of handling you could imagine.
He shouldn't be anywhere near woodwork machinery to start with.
What will happen if he has a go on a machine without this mad gadgetry i.e. almost all of them in existence?


Training for what exactly? How to survive as a complete moron?

Did you see a demo of push sticks in action? I guess not, there's no money in them.

For demonstration purposes I think he possibly did it on purpose for a dramatic finish. At the end of it he’s selling the things so no problem with that.
Re push sticks yes, yes and yes. We had several by bandsaws add table saw and made new ones as the old ones got nibbled.
Comment re training environment is to cover staff as well as to prevent serious injury to students. I ran workshops in a school for nearly 20 years with no injuries requiring medical attention ( splinters, minor burns from soldering irons, odd cuts and nicks) but there is always the outside chance that someone sometime somewhere who should not be anywhere near a machine finds themselves there with no training no supervision and no idea. They don’t deserve to be maimed.

 

[TRITON]

A band saw would be better.

Actually a hacksaw is best.

Lamb saws are similar to hacksaws as its got about the same sized teeth, and lamb and pork bones are quite soft(as bones go) so the smaller teeth make it easier in that they don't stick and catch. I would expect fresh human bones to be not dissimilar to lamp or pork.

 

[mudman]

Actually a hacksaw is best.

Lamb saws are similar to hacksaws as its got about the same sized teeth, and lamb and pork bones are quite soft(as bones go) so the smaller teeth make it easier in that they don't stick and catch. I would expect fresh human bones to be not dissimilar to lamp or pork.

I shall have to remember this advice in case I ever need it in the future.

 

[Bruce Mack]

You've missed the point - USA is notoriously backwards in terms of safety. Even riving knives pus crown guards are uncommon apparently. Gets commented on often, it's not just me!
Track down the equivalent figures for the UK?

Jacob - I just bought this pushstick (pushblock) from Jeff Allred, a maker in Texas. It is 24" long, made of cherry, and it has a commanding presence. This and a modicum of care will keep me from harm. Before you say "too big" or "too heavy" I'll answer, "It's just right". Thank you and others for emphasizing safety.