Saw Etch

[Phil79]

Hi all.

Is there an online version of a saw etch catalogue of any sort?

I have a saw I bought in my apprenticeship 30 odd years age and I’ve always wondered who the maker was. Not looking for any particular value etc, just that the etching is so so faint. There is no medallion. The only words I can make out are ‘Made in Sheffield ‘, a vague circle in the centre of the design and wording above. Beech handle.

So hoping that there’s a catalogue of etch designs and or makers floating around someone can point me to.

Thanks.

 

[whiskywill]

http://www.backsaw.net was a good site for maker's marks but it isn't currently working. Anybody know why?

 

[AndyT]

Yes, backsaw.net was useful, though a bit quiet the last few times I looked.
Its most knowledgeable contributor was probably Simon Barley who has been studying the history of the saw for several decades. You can read about his encyclopedic study of saws here

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post ... ml#p907051

If you post a photo of your saw, maybe one of us will recognise it or be able to look it up.

 

[Phil79]

Took a photo. Not sure if this helps.

 

[AndyT]

Ok, when I wrote "post a photo of your saw" I should have written "post a photo of the etch on your saw".

I know it's not the easiest thing to photograph, but it is possible!

 

[t8hants]

On the enlarged photo (click it) I can make out what might be an U and an O in a curve over where I would expect the logo to be.

 

[Phil79]

Haha. I realised this too late

Trying to draw what I can see.

 

[AndyT]

Hi Phil

I'm back home now and able to flick through BSSM. I can't find anything that matches your diagram, but here are a few thoughts:

Actually marking a saw with the words "Made in Sheffield" is surprisingly unusual - most makers just put "Sheffield" and used the space to say that the saw was made from Best Cast Steel, or that it was Warranted. One who did was the Standard Jig and Tool Co (active 1951-1961).

Drawing lines to make an oval or scroll was not common either. Firms who sometimes did do this included Slack, Sellars and Co; Spear and Jackson and some of the various Tyzacks. Does your diagram mean that there are lines on the saw or are you just showing the layout? Can you see any stray letters that might belong to any of those names? (These are some of the bigger volume makers, so the odds must be better.)

Also, backsaw.net is up again, and it does have a lot of pictures for you to search through.

 

[Phil79]

Found it!!

It’s a SIRDAR saw.

Next question, anyone had any experience with these?

 

[Phil79]

From this I was able to track down the maker.

 

[Phil79]

Slightly different font in the centre to mine, but same elsewhere.

 

[AndyT]

Well, that's an odd one!

Sirdar is far better known as a brand of knitting wool. If you look at the IPO register of trademarks, there are ten listings for Sirdar, with the oldest one dated 1898. They all belong to Sirdar Spinning, who are still in business.

I guess it could have been used on a second quality line of saws. These often had made-up names, often derived from family members or places. Wikipedia says that Sirdar was a title in the Egyptian army - perhaps it used to be better known in that context. This theory could fit with the unusual 'Made in Sheffield, England' line, rather than a named maker with an address in Sheffield.

Was there any more info where you found the photo?

 

[t8hants]

Kitchener of Khartoum was Sirdar of the Egyptian army when they went off to defeat the Mahdi of Sudan, in the Sudanese campaign of 1897, so you have a nice jingoistic saw. Jones'y of Dad's Army would be thrilled.

 

[Phil79]

Thanks to all who responded.

Rampant jingo-ism aside, (it’s of little consequence to me here in Australia anyway), this is by far, the best saw, of any maker, that I have ever used.
Beautifully balanced, handle excellently proportioned, just a fantastic saw all around. Now that I finally know the maker, nothing changes, but at least now I can put this one to bed.

Cheers Phil.

 

[Phil79]

This is the eBay description of the one I found for sale. Hope this is of some use AndyT.
Cheers

 

[AndyT]

Thanks for that, I was wondering where you found the picture. I'd say that the eBay seller's guesses match mine, ie that there was no maker called Sirdar and that we don't know for sure which maker adopted it as a brand name. The various Tyzacks did use a lot of brands, often with "Sheffield, England" or "Made in England" so it might well have been made by them.

 

[Phil79]

I found a link online, but every time I try to open it, it keeps coming up that I can’t access the website.

 

[AndyT]

I had a look at what you found. Reassuringly, archive.org now displays the following text:

This item is no longer available.
Items may be taken down for various reasons, including by decision of the uploader or due to a violation of our Terms of Use.

Presumably someone with no respect for Simon's intellectual property had got hold of a digital version of his book and uploaded it, but it has since been removed.

The book is easily available, through a print on demand service, at a reasonable price, from many retailers or direct from the author - see http://taths.org.uk/193-barley-saws for more detail.

Publishing this way makes it possible to include new material as it comes to light, and frustratingly, your saw seems to be covered in such a piece of new information. My copy of the book - bought soon after it first appeared - has no entry for Addis, who were famous for carving tools, not saws. So I can't tell you if it confirms who made your saw.

 

[kwigly]

You can download Simon's updates/corrections from Backsaw.net where he shows a backsaw made by Groves & Sons for Frederick Shaw of Leeds that also has "SIRDAR" stamped on it, but notes that the significance of "Sirdar" is unknown.
Perhaps Groves used "Sirdar" as one of their Tradenames

 

[AndyT]

Thanks to Kwigly's nudge I have looked again at the backsaw site and found the following.

- The document on archive.org is not the whole BSSM book, it's just the additional information and corrections that have been found by Simon and others since first publication - 148 pages of it!
- Putting it out on archive was discussed online and is perfectly ok by Simon - see http://www.backsaw.net/forum/index.php? ... load.1073/
- The updates document is now available again, to read online or download, at https://archive.org/details/ray_etheira_BSSM