Saw blade

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Oh no, disaster.

Just sharpened my little dovetail saw, cutting beautifully, slipped out of my hand and dropped on the concrete floor :-(

150 years and an silly person like me comes along and wrecks it.

Anyone know a good source of suitable spring steel?

(Un)Happy new year
Steve

View attachment 150194

Steve, my thought is that the plate should not have broken like that unless the steel was brittle. Steel in saw plates should not be that hard - after all, they are sharpened with a file. Try and do that to a plane blade.

 

[steve355]

Steve, my thought is that the plate should not have broken like that unless the steel was brittle. Steel in saw plates should not be that hard - after all, they are sharpened with a file. Try and do that to a plane blade.

I thought that too. The split nuts on the handle have clearly been used a few times, it’s possible that it isn’t the original blade.

 

[mark w]

I think I would contact Shane Skelton to see if he would replace the blade, but mending saws isn't my thing, using them is.

 

[steve355]

Right, thanks for all the helpful replies, offers etc.

I have ordered some of that 0.5mm steel from eBay. 3 sheets wiill give me opportunity to screw up if necessary. Plan B could be getting a replacement blade from Blackburn tools.

I will follow Deema’s method. There are a lot of good tips in that thread.

Difficulties I foresee… 1) cutting the steel if necessary. But one way or another there are ways to do that. 2) setting the saw. I’ve really struggled to set fine saws in the past. I get lost! But I’ve ground the saw set hammer to more of a point now, should be easier.

Thanks to everybody for their input. I will post a nice picture of it once it’s done

 

[steve355]

So for anybody who is interested, the three pieces of Spring steel (£6) came from the eBay chap, I had a go at replacing the blade this evening.

The spring still is indeed incredibly difficult to cut, I tried several methods, hacksaw, other gizmos I have, but in the end, a diamond tipped bkade on an angle grinder, went through it like butter. I held it in the saw vise to do this.

As also suggested, it is difficult to drill. Well, it wasn’t really that hard, the first hole went through with no problem, the second hole, however, was much more difficult, but once I sharpened the drill bit, again it wasn’t too difficult. It was just a straightforward HSS drill bit. It needs to be sharp.

It’s not very beautiful, I managed to put a tiny dent in the blade towards the handle, and I could’ve finished it better. To be honest, I was fully expecting to have to do the job twice - get it wrong the first time and then get it right the second time. However, it went well enough on the first go to at least move forwards to the toothing and sharpening stage.

 

[steve355]

Initial tooth cutting done…. Nasty feeling if I’m not careful I will end up with cows and calves before Ive even started!

 

[deema]

@steve355 Just a query, did you go along the whole length with just one stroke of the file each time, (see the thread) or did you try to adjust teeth by filing then slightly more? Looking at the teeth I can see a couple of cows and calves where the gullet depth is uneven. This suggests to me you’ve tried to adjust. (Or the file is dull)

I’d top the threads again to get a flat on each tooth and go along one stroke of a file on each tooth applying pressure in the direction you need to remove the cows. For the deeper gullets don’t do a full stroke, try half a stroke. What ever you do don’t try to adjust a single tooth by extra strokes until you are fully ‘familiar’ with saw sharpening. It usually results in uneven gullets which are harder to resolve.
I use a black permanent pen to blacken all the teeth so I can keep track where I am after each file.

 

[steve355]

@steve355 Just a query, did you go along the whole length with just one stroke of the file each time, (see the thread) or did you try to adjust teeth by filing then slightly more? Looking at the teeth I can see a couple of cows and calves where the gullet depth is uneven. This suggests to me you’ve tried to adjust. (Or the file is dull)

I’d top the threads again to get a flat on each tooth and go along one stroke of a file on each tooth applying pressure in the direction you need to remove the cows. For the deeper gullets don’t do a full stroke, try half a stroke. What ever you do don’t try to adjust a single tooth by extra strokes until you are fully ‘familiar’ with saw sharpening. It usually results in uneven gullets which are harder to resolve.
I use a black permanent pen to blacken all the teeth so I can keep track where I am after each file.

Hi Deema, not quite, I did various test cuts on a piece of scrap blade to see how that worked. I found that one stroke wasn’t enough to leave a reliable mark, so I ended up with four strokes actually, which looks like it was too much. As you suggest I will top it off with a file later and work on getting the teeth even.

 

[deema]

@steve355 Have you seen my thread on restoring a 99p saw? I detail how to sharpen a saw, it’s not the only way, but it’s a fairly consistent way of achieving good results when your start. I will add a link if you can’t find it / want to read it.
I would recommend a single stroke on every tooth right down the saw blade, then go back and do another, looking for cows and claves and applying pressure towards the cow. It’s usually takes around 4 or 5 passes to get the teeth fully formed of a backed saw before you do a final top and final sharpen.

If a file doesn’t cut a notch on one stroke, the edge teeth are dull and you need to rotate the file to a new edge / new file. I usually buy two or three files at a time as these days some files are dull from the start!

 

[BillHoughton]

Is it bent, or did the toe get snapped off? If the latter, is that a problem, or do you just have a shorter saw?

 

[steve355]

@steve355 Have you seen my thread on restoring a 99p saw? I detail how to sharpen a saw, it’s not the only way, but it’s a fairly consistent way of achieving good results when your start. I will add a link if you can’t find it / want to read it.
I would recommend a single stroke on every tooth right down the saw blade, then go back and do another, looking for cows and claves and applying pressure towards the cow. It’s usually takes around 4 or 5 passes to get the teeth fully formed of a backed saw before you do a final top and final sharpen.

If a file doesn’t cut a notch on one stroke, the edge teeth are dull and you need to rotate the file to a new edge / new file. I usually buy two or three files at a time as these days some files are dull from the start!

I did read your article and basically followed most of it. I can see it’s a case of gradual refinement and homing in on a good result carefully. If one goes too far, options narrow rapidly to file it all off and start again.

I had another half hour at it this evening, filed a tad off the top and went about very carefully evening the the teeth. It already cuts better than it did before, and I’ve got a sharpening, the set and final sharpening to do yet

it’s looking much better, really interesting to zoom in on the pic, I can see things that I can’t see when doing the filing. Very useful.

 

[Jester129]

That's certainly an improvement, but I can see several smaller teeth (or whatever bovine item).
You have WAY more patience than I have, well done!

 

[deema]

Looking at the teeth the face of the teeth looks to be rounded rather than straight. I think you have a dull file, if you have the file will try to move sideways rather than cutting down in the direction you want to go. This makes it impossible to avoid cows and calves.
Blacken all the teeth and then top the teeth. This will show the teeth with the wider lands, or the cows. It makes it far easier to know which teeth you need to tackle.

 

[steve355]

Looking at the teeth the face of the teeth looks to be rounded rather than straight. I think you have a dull file, if you have the file will try to move sideways rather than cutting down in the direction you want to go. This makes it impossible to avoid cows and calves.
Blacken all the teeth and then top the teeth. This will show the teeth with the wider lands, or the cows. It makes it far easier to know which teeth you need to tackle.

I think that the file is sharp on the face but probably dull on the corner.

 

[deema]

It’s the corners that dull first as they do the most work. If the file doesn’t cut notches quickly it’s likely the edge of the file are dull. The faces of the teeth indicated that the edges are dull as the file wanders sideways rather than cutting down, and it’s you forcing it down that makes it cut slowly causing the curve on the tooth face.

 

[steve355]

It’s the corners that dull first as they do the most work. If the file doesn’t cut notches quickly it’s likely the edge of the file are dull. The faces of the teeth indicated that the edges are dull as the file wanders sideways rather than cutting down, and it’s you forcing it down that makes it cut slowly causing the curve on the tooth face.

Is there a brand / size of file you’d recommend for 15 TPI?

 

[deema]

I’d use a XX slim file from Baco which is about the only manufacturer left.
https://www.workshopheaven.com/bahco-4-188-05-2-0-saw-file-5-xx-slim-12-15-tpi/
They do one with a handle for £5 more, or just make a handle if you don’t have one.

 

[deema]

Just spotted Axminster stock again my favourite saw files

https://www.axminstertools.com/vallorbe-precision-swiss-saw-file-extra-slim-100mm-4-951038

 

[steve355]

Just spotted Axminster stock again my favourite saw files

https://www.axminstertools.com/vallorbe-precision-swiss-saw-file-extra-slim-100mm-4-951038

Ordered, thanks

One question, on a 15TPI saw, what setting would you use on an eclipse saw set? I’ve tried the minimum but it is very, well minimal. One thing I’ve been doing is bluing the teeth with machinists layout fluid, after which the saw set leaves a lovely mark on the teeth that have been set. Innthe past I’ve got horribly lost with setting fine saws.

 

[deema]

The marks in the anvil are just that, start off in the minimum and try the saw, if it binds in the cut, increase the setting on the anvil and try again. You want the minimum you can get away with. The teeth just need to be a smidge wider than the plate. Its a lot about feel / how you saw as to what setting works for you.