Sash Windows

[RobinBHM]

Anyone else seen this before or have any thoughts - I’d love to hear them as it’s had me wondering since I bought the place?

The reason is because internally the bay window does not have a lintel and internal wall above the windows up to the ceiling.

typically this would be hidden by lowering the ceiling across the bay -but your bay window continues the ceiling line across and the tall box heads are used to fill the space up and make a feature of joinery.

They could easily have finished the box heads at a normal height and then fitted panels and mouldings to fill the space.

To me, the design makes a stunning feature of the bay window -typical thoughtful architectural design that makes period buildings so wonderful.

 

[monster]

The reason is because internally the bay window does not have a lintel and internal wall above the windows up to the ceiling.

typically this would be hidden by lowering the ceiling across the bay -but your bay window continues the ceiling line across and the tall box heads are used to fill the space up and make a feature of joinery.

They could easily have finished the box heads at a normal height and then fitted panels and mouldings to fill the space.

To me, the design makes a stunning feature of the bay window -typical thoughtful architectural design that makes period buildings so wonderful.

Hi Robin, thanks for that! - when you say there is no lintel to the internal wall, surely there must be as the brickwork continues upwards internally into the first floor above - the pics I took are the grand floor.

 

[scholar]

So one question I’ve got for the knowledgable or even those wishing to speculate - what is the thinking on why the top rail of the box sash frame is so deep???

It leaves a big space above the window that I think looks really odd and aesthetically is not what I would choose to have designed at all - virtually every original window throughout the house is made like this. The house is Edwardian and was built in 1906.

My only thinking is it’s an ideal space for a blind to be rolled or furled up into, but would they really have designed windows with soft furnishings in mind....

Anyone else seen this before or have any thoughts - I’d love to hear them as it’s had me wondering since I bought the place?

Here are a couple of pics of original existing windows in a bay with said large gap above.

Interesting.
Firstly, very nicely done project - I too am an Accoya convert and have a pile to windows to replace or restore.
Regarding the question of blinds, in our case, we prefer them to curtains - to me they look much neater inside the window reveals. Our house is 1880’s Victorian, and we have one prized external picture from 1910 where you can clearly see all the windows have roller blinds partially lowered. We don’t have the deep window heads like yours, but yours look ideal for blinds(!) - possibly with a painted or fabric pelmet - less obvious how to do this neatly in the bay, though. Edit - they are perfect for Roman blinds of course, and the blinds can hang without obscuring too much window.

Cheers

 

[monster]

Thanks for that Scholar, yes you are right - they are perfect for blinds - maybe this was the original intention!

 

[scholar]

Thanks for that Scholar, yes you are right - they are perfect for blinds - maybe this was the original intention!

Much less fabric required for roman blinds, of course - you would save thousands...

Cheers

 

[Jacob]

The reason is because internally the bay window does not have a lintel and internal wall above the windows up to the ceiling.

typically this would be hidden by lowering the ceiling across the bay -but your bay window continues the ceiling line across and the tall box heads are used to fill the space up and make a feature of joinery.

They could easily have finished the box heads at a normal height and then fitted panels and mouldings to fill the space.

To me, the design makes a stunning feature of the bay window -typical thoughtful architectural design that makes period buildings so wonderful.

Yes makes sense.

 

[monster]

But what is the internal course of bricks resting on if there is no lintel?

This is the pic of an original window that I removed and there is structural ability for it to be load bearing itself.

I removed it a few years ago and can’t remember what was above it

 

[scholar]

But what is the internal course of bricks resting on if there is no lintel?

This is the pic of an original window that I removed and there is structural ability for it to be load bearing itself.

I removed it a few years ago and can’t remember what was above it

In our case (and whilst we don’t have the extended internal head like yours, the same point applies I guess) the internal brickwork is supported by a wooden lintel. The external face in our case is a stone lintel and surround - above the internal timber lintel the brickwork gets bonded in as they are solid walls (all our internal doorways have wooden lintels with arched brickwork supports above but I guess this wouldn’t be necessary above the exterior openings due to the bonding - the wooden lintel is only supporting a few bricks if any).

(E&OE - all from memory)

Cheers

 

[RobinBHM]

Hi Robin, thanks for that! - when you say there is no lintel to the internal wall, surely there must be as the brickwork continues upwards internally into the first floor above - the pics I took are the grand floor.

I shouldve been clearer -there is not an internal lintel at the same level as the external lintel -there could be an internal level at the ceiling void.

there may or may not be an internal lintel -it depends on the bay construction -there may not be masonry above the ground floor window.


All sorts of funny stuff goes on with bays!

 

[monster]

I shouldve been clearer -there is not an internal lintel at the same level as the external lintel -there could be an internal level at the ceiling void.

there may or may not be an internal lintel -it depends on the bay construction -there may not be masonry above the ground floor window.


All sorts of funny stuff goes on with bays!

Yes I agree all sorts of odd things can happen in bay windows! lol

Although this large header to the frame happens in every room with or without a bay window, I think there must be a timber lintel higher up as Scholar mentions, as the internal course of bricks continues above the windows - which I guess still brings me back to my original question which is why is that lintel placed so high necessitating the large infill panel at the top of the frame...

 

[RobinBHM]

brings me back to my original question which is why is that lintel placed so high necessitating the large infill panel at the top of the frame..

I would guess its what the architect designed, internally there is no internal skin above the window which I guess makes the window seem larger and more ornate.

 

[jim1950]

when I was am apprentice in the late 60s early 70s it was a form of punishment to go from the joiners shop out to repair rotten sash windows, cut away the bottom of the box and replace the rot, something that very few appear to do now, but still they look much better then upvc