Sash window

[monster]

Thought I would join this forum to glean a bit more knowledge and share my current project.

Never done much before in the way of carpentry, but I needed a triple sash window making and I felt the quotes I was receiving were a little steep so decided to have a bash myself.

I'm learning as I go, but Ive got the box frame made and the top sash's done now. Been a fairly lengthy process as I have had to work out how they are constructed and how each joint is made etc, but getting there now. It has made me realise why the quotes were as high as they were as there is a lot of work involved - although now that I have done one, future ones would be made much quicker.

Its given me an excuse to accumulate some new tools!

Still gotta cut the horns on the top sash's (waiting on bandsaw delivery) and glue them up, been cutting loads of little wedges for the mortice and tenon joints.

 

[sammy.se]

Very impressive for a first attempt. Keep us updated!

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[MikeG.]

Are you copying an existing window? If so, have you copied the proportions and the thicknesses of each element?

 

[monster]

Yes I have copied an existing window, so i've replicated sections and proportions.

 

[monster]

Very impressive for a first attempt. Keep us updated!

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Thanks Sammy

 

[doctor Bob]

Thats very impressive for first go.
You must surely have a bit of experience and kit, just to know how to run mouldings, do joints etc

 

[Trevanion]

It's nice to see people tackling jobs like these themselves, The lack of modern information on them can make them very daunting to anyone who doesn't know anything about them. I have been meaning to do a detailed Boxed Sash thread for a while now, all that's stopping me is to remember to take photos #-o

Very traditional looking sashes, especially with the beveled meeting rails! You don't see that too often anymore.

The joinery on the cill looks quite interesting, Is that some sort of built-in water bead that crosses all the upright casings? Also, what's the groove all around the frame for? Don't think I've seen that before.

 

[monster]

Thats very impressive for first go.
You must surely have a bit of experience and kit, just to know how to run mouldings, do joints etc

Thanks Bob, I trained as an engineer when younger and Ive always been handy and turned my hands to a lot of different things practically.

I already had a mitre saw, but I have had to buy table saw, router table and morticer in the last few months in order to make this window, I have a bandsaw on the way from Axminster and I am on the lookout for a planer / thicknesser.

I've never made these joints before and have just studied existing windows and watched a lot of youtube vids to work things out. At the beginning it was quite daunting, but as I have gone on and tackled each aspect separately, its not been to bad, I've enjoyed it and seeing it coming together is very satisfying.

 

[monster]

It's nice to see people tackling jobs like these themselves, The lack of modern information on them can make them very daunting to anyone who doesn't know anything about them. I have been meaning to do a detailed Boxed Sash thread for a while now, all that's stopping me is to remember to take photos #-o

Very traditional looking sashes, especially with the beveled meeting rails! You don't see that too often anymore.

The joinery on the cill looks quite interesting, Is that some sort of built-in water bead that crosses all the upright casings? Also, what's the groove all around the frame for? Don't think I've seen that before.

Hi Trev, Yes there is not a lot of info out there detailing how to make a box sash - I struggling to find anything that I could follow and ended up just gleaning little bits of information from lots of places in order to work out what to do.

I put a plant on the bottom of the cill partly to ge the correct height to match existing and I also thought it a good idea not to present the end grain to the masonry work that it will be sitting on.

The groove around the frame is to take the window boards which will have a corresponding rebate to fit in, again this is how the existing windows are done.

I am making this window to fit into a new aperture I will knock through the wall in the rear elevation of the house, so it needs to match the existing windows, its an old Edwardian house but 1906.

 

[monster]

Been wedging and gluing up the sash's over the last few days. I have found the most difficult part of the whole project ensuring that the sash's glue up flat and square!

I'd really appreciate any tips from anyone to help me improve my techniques here!

 

[Trevanion]

For checking square I usually use a tape measure and measure from corner to corner of the inside of the sash, if both measurements are the same you've got a square sash. If you're doing a lot of a single size (rare nowadays) some people will use a stick with a nail hammered through one end, put the nail up against the rebate, make a mark on the timber in the opposite corner and then do the same on the other diagonal and if the mark is still in the same place in the corner, you've got a square sash. For adjusting the squareness during a glue-up you can alter the clamps so that they clamp slightly non-square towards the way it's most out, which will pull it back whichever way you want to pull it. If you're pegging the sashes, pulling them out of the clamps and then checking for square, you'll want to knock the sash on it's corners on the floor to adjust it for square, doesn't have to be a hard knock! If you wanted a good, simple gizmo for squaring a corner, Steve Maskery of this parish has an excellent video on the "Thales Square".
[youtube]0j2g0FtvkBE[/youtube]

As for gluing your sashes without twist, it's relatively simple but sometimes they will twist a little themselves as they come out of the clamps anyway. You want a dead flat and level surface for gluing up any form of joinery be it sashes or doors. One of the best ways is to have a bench that has bearers running across it's width which have been packed out to be level and in a single plane and then screwed down to the table. You can then put a cover sheet of MDF or plywood over the bearers and you will have a very nice, level surface to glue on. I tend to leave my sashes in the clamps because I've got the luxury of having a lot of t-bar clamps, but I don't have the bench space or the time to leave them on the bench for the glue to cure. So I tend to take the sashes whilst they're in the clamps and then lean them up against something, put the two bars of the clamps on the floor first and then lean it towards the wall or whatever you're leaning against, if one corner of the clamp touches the wall before the other, adust where the clamps are sitting on the floor until both hit the wall at the same time. If you do this it's worth double checking the square as it can be knocked out when you put the clamps down. If you've got the time and bench space to leave them on the bench that is the most ideal solution. It's easy enough to check for twist too, if you hold up the sash so that you can look down it while it's in the clamps with equal lift in each hand you can usually see if one side is higher than the other.

 

[LancsRick]

I always think Steve looks slightly terrified of the giant stake he's holding in the thumbnail for that video!

 

[monster]

Thanks very much Trevanion for that detailed response!!

Particularly the bit about clamping in a manner that can pull a slightly out of square sash square - I need to work out how to do that!

I like the idea of bumping them on the floor to square them up - but I didn't feel like I wanted to take them out of the clamps until the glue had dried as even though i had wedged each joint, when I relaxed the clamping pressure I could see them move ever so slightly so I left them clamped up to dry!

 

[monster]

Just thought I'd update this thread now that I've finished and installed the window. I learnt a lot making this and thanks everyone for their tips along the way!

 

[monster]

Glazed and painted

 

[monster]

Frame painted and ready to fit.

 

[monster]

Installed. The one on the left is the one I have just made - I copied off the one on the right.

 

[AndyT]

Success!

 

[Trevanion]

That's very nice workmanship Monster, you know when you've done a good job when it's hard to spot differences between the old and the new. You never see sashes corded like that anymore either with the hole for the knot, it's usually a groove down the side and the cord is nailed/screwed to the sash. Really nice, traditional work.

 

[thetyreman]

that works so well with the old window, I noticed there's a moulding around the original edges on the frame, are you going to add this to the new one? I think it would be worthwhile,

I prefer the new ones and thinner cross beams on them look a bit neater to me, that's work to be proud of for sure =D>