Sash bar dimensions for historical windows

[Jacob]

If only life was that simple: Expensive!

I use horticultural glass which has a ripple a bit like the old stuff. It's also dirt cheap so you could waste a lot getting the practice in.
TBH with such a small window I would have just bunged in one sheet and stuck fake glazing bars on top. Cutting the inside curve of the corner bits could be difficult

 

[steve355]

er. efff me! It's not difficult to cut you know. You'd need a template for the curve so you can do it in one smooth stroke.

Cutting curves

Template?

 

[Jacob]

Cutting curves

Template?

Or a steady hand. Impressed! Brilliant in fact. I've cut curves but nothing quite so elaborate.

 

[steve355]

Or a steady hand. Impressed! Brilliant in fact. I've cut curves but nothing quite so elaborate.

He has an interesting technique, seems like he keeps his eye directly above the cutter, probably using the ball on the end of the cutter to keep it vertical.

 

[johnnyb]

I made an 8 panel flemish glass door it was £300 for the glass. I was expecting £100 max

 

[steve355]

A question about my window frame… I’ve read that draw boring is the way to fix the pieces together. Before I start drilling holes, do people agree?

 

[Jacob]

A question about my window frame… I’ve read that draw boring is the way to fix the pieces together. Before I start drilling holes, do people agree?

Definitely not. It's a specialised technique for particular situations, but has become fashionable in amateur woodworking circles.

 

[steve355]

Definitely not. It's a specialised technique for particular situations, but has become fashionable in amateur woodworking circles.

Its what my book says though.

What else should I do, given that the mortises are of the “open“ type?

 

[johnnyb]

I always drawbore those( in door frames) offset towards the corner. put a packer in the fork when drilling.
I can actually assemble old style frames in situ using this method.
double check everything offset wise before drilling the tenon. damhik

 

[Jacob]

Its what my book says though.

What else should I do, given that the mortises are of the “open“ type?

Normal to make them with head and cill over long i.e. with "horns" and just a straight mortice and tenon through, with a pin through that. Then the horns are either left and built in, or sawn off prior to fixing, leaving an open bridle joint.
Wouldn't need to draw bore that, and what's wrong with using clamps anyway?
Horns help protect the work when it's being moved about on site etc.
Draw boring is fiddly to do. It isn't a "better" joint IMHO but can be a useful to pull things together where clamping is difficult - most frequently for stair string to newel post, or in timber framing.
Maybe your book is describing his view of "top class" work with no expense spared.
What is the book btw?

 

[steve355]

Its “Door-making and Window Making” by Anon, circa 1910.

The reason I chose it was that it had a step by step method, which for an inexperienced weekend hobbyist like me, trying to make his first window, seemed like it might help me get to the goal. The other texts, Ellis, Cassell’s etc don’t really have the same “step 1, do this. Step 2, do that” approach, rather they are reference texts.

The content actually came from some booklets found at the bottom of Richard Arnold’s grandfathers tool chest, according to the foreword. Richard liked it and passed it on to Lost Art press and they published it.

The author actually describes 2 different variations, one simple casement with bevels followed by a more complex version with mouldings.

Then he goes on to box sashes, Venetian windows and bay windows.

 

[johnnyb]

draw bore is perfectly legit here if carried out well. most moderne windows don't have any Dowels at all passing through the joints. those open mortice and tenons are quite effective and allow full assembly "in situ" rather than sliding a full frame in( door frames that is) which can be next to impossible at times.

 

[johnnyb]

to elaborate here those joints are held with glue and a couple of 4 inch screws. I've often thought screw joints could have less rot "nooks"

 

[johnnyb]

from under the cill.

 

[johnnyb]

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/making-a-casement-window-single-glazed.101943/post-1614097

 

[steve355]

Ok, all set out for my jambs now.

Cutting tenons before sticking mouldings seems to be the approved way. But what about the rebate on the jambs for the sash? should I do that before cutting the tenons?

 

[Jacob]

Ok, all set out for my jambs now.

Cutting tenons before sticking mouldings seems to be the approved way. But what about the rebate on the jambs for the sash? should I do that before cutting the tenons?

Mortices, and tenon cheeks first, whilst still in the square so you still have marks to work to.
Then mould/rebate.
Cut tenon shoulders last. That's what I do anyway.
Your face marks should all be on the inwards faces (i.e. best face), and opposite each other so that you have left and right.

 

[steve355]

Mortices, and tenon cheeks first, whilst still in the square so there is plenty of wood left to run the moulding/rebate plane over. Cut tenon shoulders last. That's what I do anyway.
Your face marks should all be on the inwards face (i.e. best face), and opposite each other so that you have left and right.

Ok, thanks, that’s what I’ll do then.

 

[Jacob]

Ok, thanks, that’s what I’ll do then.

I just edited it a bit in case it didn't make sense.

 

[steve355]

I just edited it a bit in case it didn't make sense.

Yes, made perfect sense thanks, if I cut the rebate for the sash, most of my marks will disappear, would not be very helpful!