Rutlands Bobbin Sander

[Hemsby]

My Rutlands £99.95 Bobbin sander arrived today. Very well packed, out of the box and a quick degrease of the spindle & table.

First impressions very good, quiet running, spindle runs true and everything fitted fine. The rubber sleeves are substantial The machine is very stable without being too heavy, being very very picky the table casting needed a light file around the bottom to remove a sharp edge.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Does it have an induction motor? (you say it's quiet, so I'm guessing it does) Cheers, W2S

 

[Hemsby]

Does it have an induction motor? (you say it's quiet, so I'm guessing it does) Cheers, W2S

Just had a quick look at the instructions nothing indicated there, no mention of brushes etc #-o will have a look at the machine tomorrow morning to see if there is any other clues

 

[Hemsby]

No real clue on the machine regarding the motor. The only noticeable noise is from the action of the bobbin, sorry cant be more help.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Thanks for looking - the website isn't specific - W2S

 

[sploo]

It looks as though there are a number of identical units from Triton, Draper, Scheppach:

http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-405269/trit ... tAodHl8ARA
http://toolstoday.co.uk/140566?gclid=CL ... wgodoX4Acg
http://www.screwfix.com/p/scheppach-osm ... nder/52316
(and the Rutlands for completeness) http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... der+dk2079

I've seem some other cosmetically similar models rated around 370w, but the 2400w Triton TRA001 router is "legally" 2000w in the UK (if you work out the volts * amps it's pretty much dead on 2000w, despite being labelled as 2400w). 370w vs 450w is about the same percentage difference, so my suspicion is that those models will be the same too.

I've seen the Triton for ~£110, but the Rutlands price does look to be very good. I'm tempted.

BTW I'm pretty certain I saw a listing for one of the models that mentioned removable brushes, so I'd guess it uses a brushed motor.


EDIT: Tempted enough to pull the trigger . It's a shame they're out of the finer grit sleeves, but I'm assuming that anything for the above brands (from numerous vendors) will work fine. I spotted a one star review on a site of the Scheppach because "you can't get replacement sleeves". I guess the buyer didn't look that hard/engage his brain!

 

[Krysstel]

+1 for the Rutlands version.

Bought one a couple of months ago despite only reading bad reviews :shock:
Noisy ? Enough to need ear protection yes, but no where near deafening. Completely acceptable.
I read there was an issue with the rise-fall mechanism but I've seen no problems yet. Maybe if it was used every day in a proff shop but would anyone really buy something this cheap to use professionally ?
Otherwise does as promised. Goes up and down and round and round and sands curved stuff. Excellant dust extraction, dependant on what you suck with. Cheap and a lot more acceptable colour than some of the clones

Mark

 

[RogerP]

There seem to be basically 2 badge engineered BS the cheaper one is brush motored and the dearer (twice the price) is larger and has an induction motor.

Here's a parts list which shows the brushed one (Triton but they're all the same under the paint)
http://www.toolsparesonline.com/images/diagrams/516693 TSPS450 Oscillating Spindle Sander 450W.pdf

 

[Krysstel]

Is having brushes a problem ?
If the noise is acceptable despite the brushes then there's no issue surely.

To put the noise of this Rutlands sander in perspective it's nowhere near as noisy as my TS (Record TS250) or my PT, both of which have induction motors. Maybe about the same as my pillar drill.
Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[sploo]

Is having brushes a problem ?
If the noise is acceptable despite the brushes then there's no issue surely.

To put the noise of this Rutlands sander in perspective it's nowhere near as noisy as my TS (Record TS250) or my PT, both of which have induction motors. Maybe about the same as my pillar drill.
Hope this helps.

Mark

As a rough rule of thumb: brushed motors are noisy, run quickly, are happy to repeatedly start stop, provide good power for their size, but need the brushes replacing over time. Induction motors are quieter, run more slowly, not so good at repeated start/stop but better for long runs, tend to have poor start-up torque (there are ways around this), and tend to be large/heavy for their power output.

As such, table saws and other fixed machinery are often best with induction. Routers, drills, other portable gear that gets started/stopped repeatedly is best with brushed.

Arguably a bobbin sander falls into the first category, but a brushed motor probably reduces the cost/size/weight for a budget item.

 

[Hemsby]

Used mine regularly over the last few days (not exactly long term #-o ) absolutely fine. Regarding the noise, personally I do not think it is particularly loud, perhaps I need my hearing checked , but I did notice the noise level varies depending on the surface its mounted and if it is fixed (hammer) or free standing.

 

[sjalloq]

I picked up one as well after seeing this thread. Quite a good deal at £100. It does feel quite cheap in terms of plastics but that does mean it's light enough to move around easily. The casting is fairly thin so doesn't weigh a lot and my Festool hose fits right in the back so I can use it on my MFT and store it away when not in use.

As for noise, I think it's pretty loud. And it's a piercing noise rather than the hum of a large induction motor. I measured a number of bits of kit around the workshop. All measurements were taken with a cheapo RadioShack meter held into my chest at working distance from the tools. C weighted with slow response.

Dakota Bobbin Sander : 91dB
Dakota Bobbin Sander + Festool CT-26 : 92dB
Jet DC1100A : 86dB
Jet PT-260 side : 84dB
Jet PT-260 mouth : 91dB
DC1100A + PT-260 side : 92dB
DC1100A + PT-260 mouth : 100dB

The motor is a noname unbadged brushed DC motor with a very primitive AC/DC converter as you can see in the pic.

Cheers.

 

[sploo]

Just wondering if any of the other owners here could clear something up for me: on page 7 of the manual it tells you to put the bobbin over the spindle, then put a washer, retaining ring and nut. From page 8, it tells you to slide the required sanding sleeve over the bobbin and tighten the nut - which I assume compresses the bobbin height (making it fatter), and causes it to grab the sleeve.

But, page 7 also notes "Please ensure the support washer as detailed on page 7 of the instruction manual is fitted to the spindle before applying the Bobbin".

Errr. What support washer? There's nothing on page 7 talking about a support washer, or indeed anything before putting the bobbin over the spindle.

There are a variety of different sized washers, including one that's really large, but I assume they're all for the different sized bobbins.

I'm assuming it's not referring to the table inserts, because it mentions those in other places in the manual.

I ask mostly as I did find the sanding sleeve on the largest bobbin rode up slightly in use. I was wondering if another washer should be used on the bottom to help compress the bobbin. Or maybe I just didn't tighten the nut enough?

 

[sjalloq]

Yeah, the instructions are amongst the worst I have seen - only just falling behind that of my Record bandsaw.

I've attached a photo of all the washers in increasing size. I'm not absolutely sure, but I used the largest as the bobbin support washer. This is the one on the right of my photo and has finger cutouts so that you can easily lift it out of the recess in the cast iron plate. You have one nut and one sprung washer that sits on top of a choice of 3 compression washers. You need to make sure you torque up the nut enough that the bobbin is compressed and it doesn't ride up shaft in use.

Don't worry, it took me a few goes to work it out.

 

[Hemsby]

Just wondering if any of the other owners here could clear something up for me: on page 7 of the manual it tells you to put the bobbin over the spindle, then put a washer, retaining ring and nut. From page 8, it tells you to slide the required sanding sleeve over the bobbin and tighten the nut - which I assume compresses the bobbin height (making it fatter), and causes it to grab the sleeve.

But, page 7 also notes "Please ensure the support washer as detailed on page 7 of the instruction manual is fitted to the spindle before applying the Bobbin".

Errr. What support washer? There's nothing on page 7 talking about a support washer, or indeed anything before putting the bobbin over the spindle.

There are a variety of different sized washers, including one that's really large, but I assume they're all for the different sized bobbins.

I'm assuming it's not referring to the table inserts, because it mentions those in other places in the manual.

I ask mostly as I did find the sanding sleeve on the largest bobbin rode up slightly in use. I was wondering if another washer should be used on the bottom to help compress the bobbin. Or maybe I just didn't tighten the nut enough?

What you should have is a large washer 80mm diam (it has 2 cut outs ) placed on the spindle first. Then your chosen bobbin & sleeve followed by a washer 45mm diameter then a smaller washer & spring washer finally the nut.

You get used to the amount of tension required on the nut to stop the sleeve rising up the bobbin (hammer)

regards,
Keith

 

[Hemsby]

Sorry forgot to mention the large 80mm washer should be placed on the spindle with the side that has the lines imprinted facing upwards (to grip the base of the bobbin)

 

[sploo]

sjalloq, Hemsby - many thanks. The large washer with two cut-outs makes perfect sense. But I've obviously somehow missed it. There is a bag with what I thought was a spanner (I usually ignore the tat that comes with cheap powertools and use my own spanners). I suspect the support washer is probably in that - and my lack of use of it would certainly explain the sleeve moving.

I'll take a look when I get back into the garage tomorrow!

 

[Hemsby]

Your welcome.
I normally ignore the instructions

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I was always puzzled at why virtually every operators manual is a pile of steaming excrement, older models, referring to parts that either don't exist or bear no resemblance to the one's shipped, appallingly badly translated English etc etc until I read Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance a very long time ago. In it, Robert Pirsig describes how manuals get written. Basically he says that all the difficult and complex jobs get the best resource until you're left with the biggest "goof off" in the factory (his words not mine) and guess who gets to write the manual?

Add to that the Chaiwanese origin in many modern cases with its associated language problem and "boom" you might as well use it to keep the inevitable bag of nuts n washers from falling in a pile of shavings

 

[sploo]

Yep - of course, the support washer is present, I just hadn't realised that's what it was! Thanks again for the assistance.

Bob - agreed; I do think most manuals are an afterthought. Funnily enough, the one I got with an Axy TS-200 table saw was pretty bad, but I've seen a PDF of the manual for the v2 saw and it actually looked like it'd been written in English, and with some decent photos and diagrams. Shows it can be done I guess.