Rust removal and prevention

[Losos]

Noel - I'm with you on this, don't cover any machines with anything which reduces or inhibits the flow of air around the machine. The HTC covers & the ones Axminster sell are OK 'cos they are microporous which I think means they let air through 'tho they are IMHO expensive.

 

[engineer one]

wasn't there another thread about rust removal in hand tools,
alf was cleaning up saws etc. something about citric acid.

from an automotive point of view, WD40 is not really a rust remover,
it is a kind of water repellant. i am not sure whether it is still made,
but jenolite used to be the product of choice, it was a mild phosphoric acid.
otherwise check out things like the classic motor car or motor cycle
mags. one thing on offer is the plastic bag which covers a motor bike, than has various humidity removers inside. also axminster used to do a kit including the kind of things you put in cigar humidifiers to remove the damp.

i would think that after removing the rust one of the setting greases would be a good thing. also mafell provide and probably sell as a spare some wax to put on the bed of their 6x4 planer thicknesser, might be a thing to look at.

my only worry about an mdf top is that it will unless painted or varnished, absorb moisture and you wonder whether in time it will pass that on?

final thought what about camelia oil sprayed on? works on hand tools why not cast iron tables?
all the best

paul :wink:

 

[Shady]

Two observations:

for a variety of reasons, I've been unable to do anything with my tools for half a year.

When checked on yesterday, my pillar drill's cast iron table, and my PT's beds, were fine. Both had received the liberon paste wax treatment; the pillar drill is a cheapo ferm job that had previously rusted in a corner: I actually nearly threw it away, but used it as a test case for rust removal/restoration. It still looks like new. My conclusion, FWIW, is that paste wax is definitely the way to go, and will give you a good six months' protection if well applied - as mentioned above, it also gives useful lubrication when feeding stock in.

WD40 aids in clean up, but doesn't seem to offer much long term protection. Camellia oil is much touted, but isn't actually much use at all, unless you are applying it virtually daily. There was a review of various rust inhibitors in a US woodworking mag that supported this view - it's not just me having an opinion. They left a number of strips of iron outdoors: the camellia oiled one rusted about as fast as the untreated control strip, IIRC.

 

[engineer one]

one of the joys of this forum is that we all learn something new everyday,
and are prepared to share it. i have used camellia oil for my hand tools for some time, and maybe it's is the fact that they are stored differently
that has helped stave off the rust. however, you cannot deny the results of the experiments.

often when you read the classic motor car or cycle articles, they also mention putting wax or petroleum type jelly on the open parts like wheel rims, and other, cast iron bits.

the problem for us all is that we forget to do maintenance jobs as regularly as we would hope too, so if you are organised enough to do the re-waxing on a specified date and time, that is fine, but "normal" people miss it,
and so you only find out on the day you want to use the machine, when you have to clean it up.

however i do agree that certain types of hard wax are a good way to go,
although also some of the waxy sprays from a machinery sales shop help too.

all the best

paul :wink:

 

[Scrit]

NeilC
I read on an American forum that a chap made covers for his cast iron tools out of thick cotton towels. These kept the tops from rusting (combined with a good waxing).

What an extremely dumb idea! Any housewife will tell you that a cotton teatowel ABSORBS and RETAINS moisture. I live in the Pennines - which are WET - and all cotton does is accelerate the rusting process. Even holding the cotton above the worktable on blocks seems to do this (been there, done that)

Basically rust is softer than iron or steel and can be removed by something as basic as an ROS with a 120grit alox disc (I use a white stearated disc) . Wipe over the top with white spirits and buff off to remove the residue. Wax with a machine bed compound such as Liberon Lubo - one good coat then buff off with a dry cotton cloth. Avoid conventional waxes as they will screw up your finishing later on. Avoid trying to build-up multiple coats for the same reason - all you are trying to do is fill the pores with the compound - not protect the machine for eternity. Repeat Lubo treatment 2/3 times per year. Where I live is wet and this kept my kit rust free in a "well ventilated" northern lights shed for a number of years whilst I was still WWing part time. BTW despite the comments elsewhere, this also works for planes.

Scrit

 

[Scott]

i've seen 'paste wax' recommended a lot, can someone recommend a brand and where to buy this?

I use Briwax that I bought in Homebase. Liberon is good too. You want good quality furniture wax and not housewife's Mr Sheeny type stuff that is full of silicon

Cheers

 

[Losos]

Paul - As you rightly say routine maintenance is the key. Easy to say but dammed hard to do. In the case of hand tools just think how long it would take to do all ones tools in one go. I try to always clean & lubricate hand tools when I've finished a job, this means that the tools I use most often never seem to rust but the ones I rarely use are the ones which suffer. As sods law states it's that one special tool which you need which has rusted up

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks for the recomendation scott. I'll keep an eye out for the liberon stuff

 

[ToMMY2k]

I have had a workshop for quite a while and a dehimidifier was the best thing I ever bought for it.

Without stating the obvious you get condensation when the air can no longer hold the amount of water vapourised in it usually when the temperature drops. Running a dehumidifier at night when the temperature drops will stop those cold metal surfaces from condensing as much water and reduce your rust problem. You need to plug up any drafts however as the air outside will still hold lots of water vapour and reverse the effects of the dehumidifier.

I have seen virtually no rust this winter on my tools thanks to this latest addition...and this dehumidifier really is a piece of rubbish...any half decent new one will be more than enough.

One suggestion is that you build a box to put it in...and use on old t-shirt as a filter for the air intake. Mine got completed bunged up with wood dust very soon after installing it and was a real pain to clean.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Offcut]

All very interesting.
I wax most things and use wd40 for some others but also use an old set of bed sheets to cover the bigger equipment for two reasons: it keeps the dust off and also seems to stop them rusting. I know what your saying scrit about holding moisture but it must also release it when I'm in the workshop warming it up. I suppose you have to give it a try and see what you find works best.

Andy

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum Tom

Adam

 

[ToMMY2k]

Thanks...Im sure I will have lots of questions to ask in the near future.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Tom

Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you onboard.

Im sure I will have lots of questions to ask in the near future.

Ask away, don't be afraid.

Cheers
Neil

 

[promhandicam]

I realise that this is an old thread but I thought I'd add my comments as it is coming up to the cold damp time of year - in the UK that is - not here in West Africa! :lol: .
In many of the hospitals in Central Africa that I have worked in, sensitive equipment is kept in a plywood box with a 25w lamp fixed inside. This works for slit lamps and other opthalmic equipment so should work for a saw. A bottomless box that would fit over the top with a lamp inside should do the job. I have also used Damp-Chasers http://www.pianocoversonline.co.uk/m215dampchaser-p-105.html - low wattage heaters used in pianos to keep the humidity down. I guess they last longer than a 25w lamp but they are a lot more expensive.

I think that an earlier post suggested fixing a lamp inside the machine but I can't really see how this would work - it would take a lot more than a 25w lamp to heat 50kg of cast iron enough to raise the temperature so that it was warmer than the ambient air temperature.

I hope that this is helpful - I'm off to the shops to see what wax I can get for my new Fox saw - if all else fails we have plenty of candles due to the frequent power cuts.

 

[paulm]

I use the Liberon lubricating wax and have no problems at all with rust. Makes using the machines a whole lot easier too.

Just apply some maybe two or three times a year.

Also tend to have some thin mdf on the tablesaw a lot of the time as it gets used for other things when not cutting timber, but even without this the wax does the trick.

Worth noting that this particular wax product is in a liquid (thick) form and does not contain silicon or affect subsequent finishes as far as I am aware, certainly not had problems myself.

Other general paste waxes may be different in this regard.......

Cheers, Paul.

 

[newt]

I have had a metal working lathe for 15 years and as yet no rust. I cover the lathe with a heavy plastic sheet and instal a 100 watt heater under the plastic sheet. The closest the sheet is to the heater is about 150 mm, the plasic just feels warm. The bottom of the sheet is open so the air can circulate, but no condensation will form.The heater in in a metal box and the element operates at a black heat. I cannot remember where I got these I think it was a mail order. Failing that a 60 watt light bulb in a metal container with vent holes, with the bulb pointing up away from the fitting (use a metal fitting) correctly wired with an earth would provide enough heat. If you are not a competent electrician get one if you decide to go down this route.