Router motor for roter table? Are AUK-tools any good?

[heimlaga]

This is the current situation:
I am still on a long time sick leave but I still have some old savings to invest and rebuilding and building tools and machinery a few hours a day is a good form of therapy to stay sane.
I am slowly recovering my health so the plan is that once I am healthy enough to go back to work I have a fully eqipped workshop and can focus more on joinery and less on carpentry than I did before my health broke down.
Making progress with my health...... last week I realized I could use a full size sledgehammer properly for the first time in 15 years.

This is the current situation with my machinery:
I have two full size spindle moulders but it seems like a router table would be nice as a compliment.......... does this make sense?

In my spare parts heaps have the cast iron table and the cast iron quill and spindle unit from a small wood framed spindle moulder. Probably 1910-s or 1920-ies. The spindle is fixed and 1" in diametre. The hole in the table is very small and not sufficient for any modern tooling. I all a totally outdated machine without any place in a 21st century workshop and as the wood frame is gone it doesn't fit a museum either.

My idea for a super cheap yet very heavy duty router table is to weld up a frame from some heavy U-channel that is laying around.
Then weld up a custom router motor mount that fits the bearing block mounts on the old quill unit. That way I can get the most solid router lift in existence north of the Rhine at essentially no cost.

Some 5 years ago when I was thinking about this I had to abandon the idea because there were no suitable router motors on the market and the table is too thick to mount a an ordinary plunge router.

Now I notised that Peter Sefton sells some AUK-tools router motors of suitable power and size..... are they any good?
They outer shell looks just like the Chineese rubbish on Alibaba and Rutlands but if Peter is true to his old habits I suspect the innards of the motor may be something very different from the standard model?

Any thoughts?

 

[Alexfn]

i posted a similar project last week, i hadn't seen this type of motor before i thought the were only 1/4in, interesting

 

[heimlaga]

I hadn't notised that thread.
You also seem to have one of those light duty spindle moulders that aren't big enough for what they are but would make good router tables instead of being scrapped.
As the surface speed of spindle bearing increase with larger diametre bearings you too will be forced to install a router motor.
Now we just need to find some good router motors for our projects.

 

[siggy_7]

If it were my project I would look at a small CNC spindle. You can get an 80mm spindle with a 3 phase VFD (8-24000rpm speed range) and an ER20 collet for the same sort of money as a half decent router. I reckon the bearings and motor quality will be much better on the spindle than a screaming brush motor on a router.

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[Alexfn]

got any links to the suggested motor type?
thanks alex

 

[siggy_7]

Something like this:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2025941620

The common "Chinese Spindle" comes in a range of standard sizes, some water cooled and some air. My preference would be water cooled as it can only be a good thing to reduce the effects of dust on motor longevity. Some have the smaller ER11 collet; I would always go ER20 collet as this allows you to use a 1/2" bit.

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[siggy_7]

In the interests of balance, I should say the disadvantage of this route is that the normal use of these spindles is in a CNC machine so the mounting is down to you as the builder of the machine. Using a router, installing an existing machine upside down is relatively straightforward and height adjustment is built into the router base. With the CNC spindle you have to buy and adapt something (eg a router lift or CNC Z-axis mount) or fabricate it yourself.

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[heimlaga]

Are there any spindle motors that will take 12 mm and 8 mm bits and are large enough to power 12 mm router bits?
I prefere to use bits that can be porchased in Europe because I have no credit card. I also prefere the ability to fit the 8mm shank bits from my handheld router into the table router at times.


Siggy 7
I have tested using a standard router mounted in a standard router table and found that setting the depth was too complicated when time is money and that the table was too weak for larger scale woodwork which is likely to be my mainstay.
Before I buy or build a machine I always try my best to define what work it is supposed to do and buy according to technical specifications that come out of that analyse. Just to avoid an endless row costly upgrades in a hurry while jobs are waiting.

In this case I end up with the technical specifications of a 1000€ cast iron router table and a Triton router. Not quite the money I am willing to spend if I can achieve the same technical specifications using either a spindle motor or an AUK router motor mounted in a simple home made bracket to a "router lift" and a cast iron table which costed 50€ together.

 

[siggy_7]

The ER20 collet system gives you the capacity to clamp any bit from 1-13mm. Each collet has a 1mm clamping range, so just choose the appropriate collet for whatever shank you have (the collets are interchangeable on the spindle; you can buy a whole set for not much money).

If you're looking at fabricating a bracket and lift anyway, then my comments about that being extra effort with a spindle don't apply. I use online suppliers for this sort of stuff so can't help there I'm afraid.

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[heimlaga]

I will take a look at spindle motors with the ER20 collet system. Just as another alternative to the AUK-tools routers. I already had an interresting discussion with Peter Sefton and wioew his motors as a good alternative but I rekon all possiblities should be researched properly.

Are spindle motors induction motors?
I know from recent experience that it is very very tricky to find and install a new commutator in a router motor that has seen a bit of use and worn out the commutator......... so brushless would be a clear adwantage.

What sort of spindle motor should I look for?
I am completely at a loss..... and I don't trust the Chineese.


I see.....
Usually I go tool shopping at the local scrap yards and on findit.fi and tori.fi where people put up their junk for sale. A whole different way of doing things...... but that part of it is my field of expertice so that will be no problem.

 

[heimlaga]

As we all know google is heavily biased towards Chineese consumer goods for the USA market. All 110 volt 60Hz. It is totally ridiculous. Google refuses to use my search words. Damned imperialists.

How on earth do I find s good, preferably not chineese. air cooled spindle motor with ER20 chuck?

As everyone specifies dejonized water for water cooled units I am certain that water cooled isn't for me. It is totally impossible to keep wood dust out of the cooling water where I am around.

 

[heimlaga]

Suhner UAL 23RF would seem ideal.........
https://www.sautershop.de/fraesmotor-su ... su-6459305
I have to get richer first.......

I suppose I should build the machine to fit euther an AUK-tools or a Suchner depending on financial situation.........

 

[Alexfn]

If it were my project I would look at a small CNC spindle. You can get an 80mm spindle with a 3 phase VFD (8-24000rpm speed range) and an ER20 collet for the same sort of money as a half decent router. I reckon the bearings and motor quality will be much better on the spindle than a screaming brush motor on a router.

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thanks for your reply.

how do you think they would cope with the load of a big panel bit? i have no experience of cnc but thought that effectively they take away material in several very small passes compared to the amount you would do with a router
you have certainly sparked my interest, not been in the workshop all weekend but going to take a look tomorrow.

 

[siggy_7]

The spindle motors I have seen are three phase induction motors. They are frequently sold with a VFD that takes a single phase input and gives a variable frequency three phase output for speed control. As I said I'm not sure I can be of much use with sourcing such a motor, since I would normally turn to eBay or similar for something like this.

Alex - my understanding is that the bearings in the spindle motors are superior to routers, and the run out of the spindles is much better than on a router. By nature of the work done with a CNC you never see them used with large diameter bits, but the cutting forces of a small tool being driven fast through a hard material are still significant. My guess is the spindle would handle a large diameter bit just fine.

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[heimlaga]

I thought it would be a good idea to update this thread.

I ended up buying a 1800w Suchner router motor. They seem more intended for industrial use than their competitors. Not that I am talking down AUK in any way only that i know my habit of working my machines very hard and therefore I wanted the strongest and most solid motor I could afford.
This is how it ended up: