Riving knife/Splitter

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If the knife or any future knife cannot be fitted so it will rise, lower and tilt with the blade. Then it will never be a riving knife, those are the very thing that defines what a riving knife is, in contrast to a splitter.

In your case I'd probably look for another saw, looks like it has a long arbor, so if I had room I'd keep it and have it set up with a dado stack permanently.
 
Eric The Viking":1tdn7uk0 said:
That's only a support for the crown guard - 'splitter' at best - it has no other safety purpose. And after a few minutes in that video they're ripping stock (oak, might be pine) with a long fence. I can't hear the commentary on this machine - they might be saying this is how not to do it, but... take it as the American Way (assault rifles, etc.).

You're right, it is a splitter, my mistake.

I find the "American Way" stuff tiresome. I've seen woodworking, professional and hobbyist, first hand, in both the UK and the US. I don't believe we're particularly virtuous in the safety stakes. We continued smoking in workshops long after it ended there. We routinely dispose of finishing residue direct into the drains to a far greater extent than I saw in the US. And, at least according to my observations, we're far less likely to use dust masks (I don't know about you, but losing a finger might spoil my day, but contracting nasal cancer would be an altogether more comprehensive bummer). I too find the US gun culture surprising, but believe me, when Americans visit me here and see how I (legally) hand the tiller of my boat to my unqualified 14 year old in some of the world's busiest shipping lanes, they too may conclude we're way too wedded to ancient rights and privileges.
 
For ripping solid timber you really need a strong metal riving knife set close behind the blade and the correct thickness.

Sheet materials or small section softwood maybe ok, but wide and or thick boards of hardwood definitely not. Ive had big boards of iroko close up so much whilst ripping that its taken wedges and a hammer to release the riving knife. I cant see those plastic micro splitters lasting long.

If tension in timber causes it to move whilst ripping, then there is much greater risk of binding if the splitter is longer and further from the back of the blade.

Im not a big fan of that youtube video on saw safety, the hands often seem too close to the blade, although that could be caused by the poor camera angle. Also Im not sure I would agree on the blade height, just above the work is not necessarily the safest position. It may reduce the amount of blade exposed but also reduces the downward force of the blade and may encourage work to ride up over the blade.

Most sheet materials are quite straight forward for ripping cuts, although I find OSB can bind as it sometimes seems to have tension in the boards.
 
I don't believe there can be too much of a problem with any of this as a general fault, or this would have been refered too by the two members in the post's they made.
Is the riving knife square to the bench when fixed or bent?
Regards Rodders
 
I'm with all the other comments and personally I wouldn't contemplate using that unless seriously altered.
As said, you can't have a riving knife if it doesn't rise and fall with the blade but though far from ideal, if I really HAD to keep the saw, I'd look at making a new knife / splitter elongated towards the blade but fixed in the same place. I'd also look at the possibility of additional support across nearer the blade and the knife would need to be very rigid. Perhaps another way to look at it but would be Heath Robinson and whether that would work could be doubtful tbh.

The best modification you can make is draw up a sale sign, turn it into euros and buy something better, there's plenty out thare.
Bob

edit: Just a thought, if it's that far behind the blade, is the blade fitted undersized for the saw capacity?
 
Again thanks for all the thought put into the various responses.
The knife/splitter is definitely the original, as the guy I got the saw from, bought it new, in the 90s.
Living in rural France I have easy access to numerous local woodyards and can buy numerous types of wood, both "green" and dried. Prior to this "thread" I used the saw on 20 pieces of dry chestnut 34mm thick tree slices. 2.5 meters in length each one. On reading all the posts, this type of cut appears to be one pf those that are up at the top of the "danger list" so to speak.
I'm sure that although the splitter is not a good design feature on this table saw !!!! , the fault is with the lack of rigidity when fitted. As I have said, I will try and sort that out.
I do have the original guard which is metal, fixes to the splitter and has anti-kickback teeth on it, which I will re-fit .

When I have used it to cut plywood and other planks, mostly oak, I have had no problems with binding on the blade. And when I have wanted the first straight edge on a waney board, I have used a straight edge , put the full board on trestles and used a hand held circular saw.
 
If you want it to work as a riving knife, you need to get it to around 4-5mm of the back of the blade, and be pretty well supported and rigid.

As you rip-cut wood (i.e. roughly along the grain), you release tensions in it from when it was a growing tree.

Think, for example, of the parts of the trunk where large branches join: mechanically there's an enormous bending force exerted on the fibres of the trunk - the tree grows to counteract them, to keep the branch out sideways. When it's felled, the force from gravity on the bough is removed. Those tensioned and compressed fibres will stay roughly in place when the trunk is planked, but they're like long springs embedded in the wood. And trees rarely grow perfectly straight, so there'll be twists and all sorts of odd geometry associated with the original shape

When you rip-cut, you sever some fibres but not others, and the wood moves as a consequence. The dangerous movement is anything that pushes it towards the rising teeth at the back of the saw blade. This might be the cut closing up, but it might also be any twisting action of either the stiock or the waste piece as they move past the blade.

It's why using a full length 'rip' fence on natural timber is extra dangerous - it doesn't help the straightness of the cut at all, but it does give the wood something to spring against, and the force can be released in only one direction - towards the dangerous back of the blade. So a short fence - stopping just after the front teeth is safer. It guides the stock up to the blade, but once the cut has been made (at the front of the saw blade) there's room for cut pieces to fall away, or for any wood movement that otherwise would pinch the wood into the back of the blade.

Cross-cutting doesn't create any of the same risks. If anything the wood will spring away from the blade, rather than towards it, and the geometry of what you're doing and where you are holding stuff means it's hard for the wood to be grabbed and launched

And that pinching is further mitigated by a riving knife - so the wood cannot get right on top of the teeth. Anti-kickback fingers (serrated pawls) don't do it, for the same reason that your splitter doesn't - they are too far back from the danger area, and anyway, rely largely on gravity or a spring, and on a dangerous kickback happening with a limited predicted range of motion (they only jam the wood against the saw table - what about if it's already above the table when they engage...???) .

Why a long fence, if it's dangerous? Answer: man-made boards. They don't have the odd tensions that natural wood does, and in this one case, the long fence may help keep the cut straight. In this context it isn't really ripping (despite the common use of the term), as the wood grain is in many directions, and not with any stored-up tension to be released. You can get kickback, but not of the same nature.

Hope that helps.

E.
 
I have a 1963 Wadkin dimension saw that has a splitter as opposed to a riving knife.



It's a beautiful machine which I shall not be selling. I would love to convert it to a full riving knife arrangement but I haven't figured out how that would be done (or even if it is possible). Some form of parallelogram would be required between the bolt holes for the splitter (to the left of shot) and those which attach to the rise and fall trunnion of which there are two (both out of shot in that pic though unfortunately). Has this ever been done before? In the mean time I rip solid boards with a short fence, 2 x 12" push sticks and heaps of concentration.
 
I've already started to make an additional short fence as I can see the ;logic behind that.
Unfortunately there are no additional mounting points or even potential mounting points near the arbor to allow rise and fall with the saw blade.
I have an engineer friend who might be able to come up with a solution to get the splitter nearer.
The plastic splitter idea from Microjig certainly puts the splkitter closer, but I cannot see it lasting, or even working with a heavy piece of waney board, it it starts to nip.
Saftey issues in abundance me thinks !!!
 
Eric The Viking":1xert3ow said:
.....
Cross-cutting doesn't create any of the same risks. If anything the wood will spring away from the blade, rather than towards it, and the geometry of what you're doing and where you are holding stuff means it's hard for the wood to be grabbed and launched .....
Can be worse. If you cross cut with the end against a fence the off-cut can skew and everything go ****-shaped in a flash. - flying wood, bent blade, fence knocked off square etc. A short fence avoids this - it's used to gauge the length of off-cut but by the time it is in the saw it is free of the fence and will fall away freely.

NB this saw is usable with care (it was used) but just isn't as good as it could be. The main thing is always to use two push sticks. And look for another saw!

PS Microjig products all total garbage. Useless expensive gadgets. Don't bother.
 
You're right Jacob -- I hadn't thought of that "approach" to cross-cutting, but it is a trap to fall into: one of the videos mentioned earlier in this thread shows repetitive cross cutting , measuring against a stop block on the rip fence but a stop block that finished well before the blade (effectively a too-short short fence). That ought to be safe, but only because it provides no pivot point for the stock that a long fence would create.
 
Eric The Viking":2ipjxuk0 said:
You're right Jacob -- I hadn't thought of that "approach" to cross-cutting, but it is a trap to fall into: one of the videos mentioned earlier in this thread shows repetitive cross cutting , measuring against a stop block on the rip fence but a stop block that finished well before the blade (effectively a too-short short fence). That ought to be safe, but only because it provides no pivot point for the stock that a long fence would create.
Yep that's it. I know this having bin there dunnit. Once! A few close shaves over the years but luckily no permanent injuries so far (except the deafness).
 
Just going back to the reference to the Microjig, and whether it would be useful or not ..................just got hold of a copy of the "Jim Tolpin's Table Saw Magic " and on page 47 , he demonstrates making one, identical really to the one on sale with Microjig !!!!
 
DFC1047":hr12s542 said:
Living in rural France I have easy access to numerous local woodyards and can buy numerous types of wood, both "green" and dried. Prior to this "thread" I used the saw on 20 pieces of dry chestnut 34mm thick tree slices. 2.5 meters in length each one.

You seem pretty serious about working wood DFC. And full credit to you for that. Where's this taking you to; making furniture, house repairs, hobby, employment?
 
Hobby really. Never had the opportunity to do anything "practical" before moving to France. Unfortunately at school they thought I was good at Latin !!!! , so I had to do that instead of wood and metalwork. Now having to learn everything from scratch !!
 
To be effective the riving knife needs to be less than 8mm from the saw blade, and thicker than the saw blade but thinner than the
saw kerf.
If you believe that fitting this microjig is an improvement and safer then at least you're doing something towards safety.
As others have said, and now, having seen the vid, I can't see this thing working in the forceful event of kickback as it would likely rip the zero insert/mouthpiece right out of the screw heads or threads, causing even more problems, even if you got the correct thickness and distance right.
Kickback is not very common, some say, I used to be cutting timber sometimes all day in a saw mill, and kick back happened sometimes 2, or 3 times a week, you get to half expect it.
I'm still convinced you have a good reasonable quality saw bench there and once you have sorted the R.K. mounting and alignment out it will give good service.
I don't understand the rear bolt fixing though.
Regards Rodders
 
MicroJig: don't get distracted. In a kickback it won't help you as it's simply too fragile.

Fix the core problem, which is making/fitting an effective riving knife. I can see bits you might fix or clamp to, for example the bar running front-back. You might carefully drill+tap the cast bearing housing (or, better, the supporting part of the casting), and fix a mounting bracket to that. The bits that tilt and rise+fall with the blade are the bits to fix something to. Once you have a good mounting you can contrive the rest.

I don't think it's impossible but it does need a bit of careful thought and a bit of work. I appreciate you're in France, but if you know a good car mechanic in the area, it might be worth mentioning the problem and asking for ideas - everyone likes a puzzle!

E.

PS: I'm not being dogmatic for the sake of it, I just think things like the MicroJig will give a false sense of security and possibly fail when you really need them.

PPS: Jacob's made the point - it was designed as a panel saw in the early days of small panel saws. Your intended use is different, and carries more risks.
 
I've looked at the Biesemeyer Knife/Splitter, which appears OK. It's the fitting aspect that I cannot see properly on any of the publicity etc. I am back to the UK in about a month and will try and get hold of one to look at. Although that only works on straight cuts, and does not rise/fall with the blade.
The only bevel cuts I have made are on 2" x 3" stock, just for appearance really, and so perhaps at the moment the neccessity for rise/fall movement of the knife would not be so important ?
In the meantime, I'll get my engineer mate to have a look and see what he thinks. He's quite imaginative when it comes to sorting problems in metal !!
 
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