Riving knife/Splitter

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It's more of a "panel" saw isn't it? i.e. too big a table for many table saw ops but good for panels.
Sawing sheet material should be pretty safe as you don't get your fingers near the blade.
On the other hand sawing small stuff might be hazardous as you have to reach over so much.
Whatever you do, use TWO push sticks every time. Not one funny one like Steve's!
 
Hope the pics give the right information.
As you can see from the pic of the knife, there are 2 bolts fixing it outside the front of the table, and one big bolt inside. There is no other fixing point inside the table other than the one big bolt. I suppose it would be possible to fabricate something to fit on that one single bolt, but I don't have anything to do that with.
I'm sure its the same one as in the post by Blackrod.
Does anyone have any thoughts on that splitter from Microjig, as that appears to be a reasonable solution ..............plus, having looked at the videoby Steve Maskery, I will make a short rip fence, and attatch a perspex guard over the blade.
Again thank you all for offering your help and suggestions.
 

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DFC1047":4i69oh4b said:
... I will make a short rip fence, and attatch a perspex guard over the blade.
Again thank you all for offering your help and suggestions.
Short rip fence is good, perspex guard is not. A blade guard need to be quite tough and firmly fixed - Steve posted a thread earlier showing the consequences. A flimsy or badly fitted guard could be more dangerous than having nothing at all

Two push sticks is the most essential safety measure - other things may go wrong but at least you won't lose a finger.
 
DFC1047":rzr0tbcn said:
I agree the saw is old, looks like 1992, but it is in good condition, the lighting on the pic, and the location does not do it justice really. It was in regular use by a good woodworker until I inherited it after he return to UK. I'm a "good learner", that's why I ask the questions, and I do take notice of what is said .

1992 is not old by any stretch. I thought you where talking 40s, 50s or 60s.

Edit: Saw the pictures now. Can't tell, does the mechanism allow the riving knife to lower and rise and tilt with the blade? If it does then something could be fabricated for it to be attached to that point.


I too started with an older saw ('74) and had to learn how it worked and do some cleaning and such. Being careful and reading up helps a lot.
 
That green splitter you posted the advert for is pretty pointless from a safety perspective.

You're best off thinking of the black plate as a support for the crown guard, as it can't function as a riving knife.

The idea (of a riving knife) is that it prevents the wood either pinching or otherwise moving into the path of the rising teeth at the back of the blade. If the wood doesn't do that, and if the top of the blade leaves the wood (i.e. it's a through cut rather than a groove you're making), a kickback is unlikely. The riving knife needs to be only slightly thinner than the saw's kerf, so that it passes through the kerf as it is cut, but stops the wood from deviating right or left. The general rule of thumb seems to be very slightly thicker than the saw plate (the main disc of the saw to which the teeth are usually brazed). So if you change the blade thickness you really should change the riving knife, too!

It looks horribly as if that saw has never actually had a riving knife fitted at all. As discussed, one would expect it to rise and fall with the blade, so typically it would be mounted to something associated with the mounting for the blade arbour (it's spindle), and would tilt with the blade, staying close to the teeth and in alignment with the blade.

As it stands, the black steel plate ought to be quite a good support for the guard, when the saw is used to cut squarely, meaning 90 degrees from the table surface. But it's not a riving knife, and if you tilt the blade at all you'll have to remove both the plate and the guard, which is wholly unsatisfactory.

It isn't a riving knife and it can't ever be one as it's far too far back from the blade and can't be made to stay close to it.

As things are now, they don't make commercial sense (the saw was originally sold by a UK firm, after all). Riving knives have effectively been mandatory for new UK saws for a long time.

I'd strongly suggest you do a little detective work to see if the mechanism around the arbour shows any signs of missing parts or bolt holes where something ought to be mounted, but isn't. Contact Poolewood too,if you can, as they may well know exactly what ought to be there, and might even have the missing parts.

Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable using it in that condition, although I appreciate that thousands of Americans do that sort of thing every day. But they also allow individuals to own assault rifles, so it's probably sensible not to extrapolate from them... :)

E.

PS: you even find riving knives on handheld circular saws. The Festool TS55 has one, but my Makita rail saw doesn't. Guess what: I actually managed to get a kickback when using the Makita on its rail.. The kickback caused the saw to jump off the rail and was extremely frightening, although no damage was done: if you lift a plunge saw off the rail, the baseplate and the blade cover immediately spring down to protect you, but if the saw comes off the rail at an angle, the spinning blade is exposed, and probably pointing at you (because of the way they're usually used). A stiff, sweet coffee was called for, and an important lesson was learned - you'd think there shouldn't be enough kinetic energy available to do that, but there is (and your finger is still on the trigger so there's power from the motor, too). I really like the Makita in every other respect, but, bluntly, it should have a riving knife.
 
Pic of arbor attached. There is nothing else to mount to other than that one large bolt at the fron inside the housing, and the 2 exterior ones. Mounti9ng points are shown on the existing old knife.
 

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Blade removed. There is nothing else there, only the arbor that pivots up
 

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So that steel rod that seems to be connected to the arbor assembly doesn't move when the arbor does?
 
I'll say it again - it's not a general purpose table saw at all - it's a slightly specialised, smallish, "panel" saw and as such probably safe, but not safe for general purposes due to having to reach over it and the absence of riving knife.
They are usually a lot bigger, and modern ones have riving knives too, e.g.

311.jpg
 
This looks similar to your current riving knife,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaVSsX7qPuc

What's more, they've got it attached to the tilting arbour mechanism so it will function during a bevel cut.

You seem determined to use the saw. Okay, I wouldn't but it's a free country (France included!). All I can say is,

1. Get a correctly sized riving knife fitted (thinner than the kerf, thicker than the plate). If at all possible get a guard fitted too.
2. Use push sticks, never place your hands closer than 300mm from the blade.
3. For ripping solid timber use a short fence.
4. Make sure the workpiece can not become trapped or pinched.
5. The danger of a saw increases as the workpiece gets wetter, bigger, wilder grained, and less straight. The safest material to saw is MDF (dust excepted), so there's a lot to be said for practising with MDF until you've got smoother and less jittery in your actions. Then move on to straight grained, S4S, kilned timber. You want to be really careful around waney edged, freshly felled stuff, that makes even experienced sawyers slow right down and think hard.
6. Plan each cut and think it through, step by step and in entirety, before even switching the saw on.
7. Stay out of the "danger zone" behind and to the right of the saw, find a way of shutting the saw down without entering the danger zone.
8. Do some homework. I found these, I don't agree with absolutely everything he says, but he's an experienced man with ten fingers so he's doing something right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxUVTtdTne4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3kv7d8BXh4

Good luck!
 
DFC1047":2wsf2qxx said:
Jacob .... ?????
It's intended for cutting sheet material - hence the wide table on a small saw. This is known as a "panel" saw. Can be used for smaller stuff of course, but not ideal.
 
Thanks for all the advice Custard, I will heed everything you say.
One more question on this issue, what do you think of this splitter by Microjig ?

It's sold by "The Woodworkers workshop"
 

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Pointless gadget. I doubt it 'd work especially if it came under any pressure at all. Riving knives have to be sturdy, stiff and height of the blade.
 
what do you think of this splitter by Microjig ?

I don't know what to say.

At first glance I'd dismiss it as a daft plastic gimmick.

But it's sold by Peter Sefton and he's a vastly experienced man who doesn't sell tat (he runs woodworking machinery safety courses so his views are worth some serious consideration). One problem would be that it can't tilt with the blade so is no good for bevel cuts, it might also not be the right thickness for your blade (thicker than the plate, thinner than the kerf), and surely it would just get broken in five minutes flat? But if I'm missing something and it does actually perform properly then it's an easy solution. Why not give them a call and explain what your problem is and what your reservations are about this device, if you could talk to Peter direct and he stands behind it then that would be good enough for me to suspend my reservations and try it out. Like I say, his is one of the few voices that I'd listen to carefully.

I'd also be giving some serious attention to the original riving knife. What exactly is causing it to catch? Is it the blade? Can the riving knife be amended to work better? Can it be attached differently to tilt with the arbour? Would cleaning off any rust spots, wax polishing, filing away and dings and dents, make it work better? Could the attachment points be shimmed to position it more advantageously?
 
Jacob":2m5gnc2m said:
DFC1047":2m5gnc2m said:
... I will make a short rip fence, and attatch a perspex guard over the blade.
Again thank you all for offering your help and suggestions.
Short rip fence is good, perspex guard is not. A blade guard need to be quite tough and firmly fixed - Steve posted a thread earlier showing the consequences. A flimsy or badly fitted guard could be more dangerous than having nothing at all

Two push sticks is the most essential safety measure - other things may go wrong but at least you won't lose a finger.

I'm with Jacob on the above, plastic guards are not much better than cheese!
It needs to be made of alloy or brass, not hard enough to make shrapnel but will actually Guard you as it's s'posed to do.
An the Two push sticks every time.
Have you checked the saw blade and riving knife alignment yet?
Before you buy anything that Won't fit.
Regards Rodders
 
custard":13cdv7y7 said:
........
At first glance I'd dismiss it as a daft plastic gimmick.

But it's sold by Peter Sefton and he's a vastly experienced man who doesn't sell tat ......
Nobody is perfect!
It looks like a dubious bit of tat to me. Even experienced woodworkers are susceptible to smooth talking snake-oil reps!
 
custard":3d0l7ofx said:
This looks similar to your current riving knife,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaVSsX7qPuc

That's only a support for the crown guard - 'splitter' at best - it has no other safety purpose. And after a few minutes in that video they're ripping stock (oak, might be pine) with a long fence. I can't hear the commentary on this machine - they might be saying this is how not to do it, but... take it as the American Way (assault rifles, etc.). They also show a list of the reasons for kickback, which doesn't include the absence of a riving knife. There's even a point in the video when you see an offcut being knocked forward by the blade.

I don't have sound on this m/c, and the subtitles are entertaining, but that's not their fault. ;-)
 
The riving knife in that video is exactly like mine.
The plastic gizmo is easy to fit , but I can see it being pushed out of its mounting holes fairly easily.
I have watched a number of Peter Sefton videos, and he obviously is well respected in this field.
I can also determine from your responses that I must really sort out the issue with the original riving knife. Although it is difficult to set up for a couple of reasons , firstly that it is some distance from the blade and secondly because if its mounting points, it can easily be moved ( fractions......but enough ) , causing it to impede initial progress of the wood. However I think the main issue is that on measuring the width of the knife and checking the kerf of the blade, the knife is significantly bigger...3mm as opposed to 2.4 mm.
I will clean up the knife and reset it and see if that makes any difference.
If it could be mounted as all the newer knives appear to be, much closer to the saw blade, the alignment would not pose such a great problem. There is only one possible mounting point, which is the large bolt inside the main frame, 80mm from the blade.
Also, there is no possibility of having the knife, however fitted, being useable with a bevel cut.
 
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