Ripping with Radial Arm Saw

[jonnypetrie]

I'm in the process of setting up a hobby workshop. I got my hands on a dewalt powershop 125 for free and I'm currently setting it up and doing a bit f youtube training. Initially I was thinking it would be great as I could do all the cross cutting and ripping i needed do, however, I've found when I google ripping and RAS I get a lot of hysterical people saying that it's just too dangerous and you should avoid ripping with a RAS at all costs!

surly if the tool is used correctly with safety precautions put in place it's safe to use? For example, setting the anti kickback, using featherboards and not standing behind the wood that your ripping.

A table saw would probably be a better option, but I have this so would like to use it.

thanks,

 

[RobinBHM]

I personally think that for home use, a radial arm saw has been superseded by the chop saw. I used to have an elu radial arm saw but found there was too much play in the the arm for repeatable accurate cross cutting.

I know they used to sell RAS's with anti kickback fingers for ripping, but the danger of using them for this function is well documented. As you say properly guarded and correctly set up it should be fine. I would only attempt to cut mdf and ply, never solid timber.

 

[Rhossydd]

Well in theory, if you know what you're doing, yes, it can do ripping when used correctly and cautiously.
I tried it when I first got my RAS, would I ever do it again ? NO. It's the one tool that resulted in a trip to A&E for me.

If you're new to using woodworking machinery you'll not really be aware of just how instant and violent kickbacks can be, usually with no advance warning.

In particular, don't try to rip anything small, less than, say, a metre long. Anything shorter becomes difficult to control and then the danger starts.
If in any doubt, just don't try it. There's a reason so many people tell you not to.

 

[wizard]

I bought a dewalt powershop 125 and found it scary plus i wanted it to cut 3” but it would not. I put it on ebay and bought a wadkin and it crosscuts perfect as for ripping i have never tried it and never will.

 

[powertools]

I have a Dewalt Powershop 125 that I purchased new in the late 1980's and it is still one of my favorite machines in my workshop. It is important to remember that in those days the world was a very different place and all tools and machines were expensive so manufacturers tried to make there machines do more than they were really suited to do. If you look at the latest Dewalt radial arm saw information there is no reference to being able to rip saw on it, there will be a good reason for that.
A radial arm saw properly set up and in a fixed position in a workshop will out perform any chop saw but and here is the problem to set it up properly will take the best part of the most frustrating day of your life and I think that most second hand ones have never been set up properly.
If you still want to rip saw on it having read and watched the videos all telling you not to make sure that the machine is set up 100%, make sure that you have the anti kick back fingers fitted and adjusted correctly (most older second hand machines have these missing) and make sure that you have the correct blade fitted for rip cuts and finally get back to us and let us know how you got on.

 

[Rhossydd]

to set it up properly will take the best part of the most frustrating day of your life

Not my experience. My DW 1251 has been relatively straightforward to set up and maintain over the years.
There are FAR harder machines to set up in the workshop eg bandsaw or planer/thicknesser.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Do it if you you are a high-risk taking kind of guy. I wouldn't. Not even as an experiment. Perhaps especially not as an experiment.
A RAS cuts on the up stroke, so the workpiece is always prone to being picked up and flung at you.
As said earlier, there is a very good reason why modern instructions don't refer to ripping with a RAS. It's a very risky operation. Even if yours has pawls, I bet it doesn't have a riving knife. And even if it does the forces are still up and at you.

Don't do it.
S

 

[deema]

I have a Wadkin RAS, and found that initial setting it up takes about a 30 minute when you first get the machine / change of the top. Not difficult, but once done the saw is IMO far better than any chop saw. I have occasionally used it for ripping, however I have both the paws and riving knife. However, I create a tunnel made of 3x2 in a frame through which I feed the stuff. It stops me getting close to the blade and stops any projectiles being thrown up in my face. The main ripping I do on it is for curved work where I mount an arch for example on a template and cut the ends of the arch to length ready for hammer head Tenoning. Perfectly square and aligned with each other. I've not found a better solution.

The one thing to be ABSOLUTLEY certain of, is that you use the right blade with negative rake of the teeth. A normal table saw blade should never be used as the blade pulls the work into itself which gets very exciting very quickly as the blade rushes towards you at a rate that you cannot control. (A RAS saw cuts when you pull it towards you, never cut pushing it into the fence as I have seen on many uTube videos. The idea is that the blade pulls the stuff down onto table the fence and therefore keeps it in place and it doesn't move (you must have a really strong fence otherwise it will break and that's exciting for all the wrong reasons too). If you cut on the push, the blade is trying to lift the stuff off the table and up the fence, and your hand will, when it succeeds go with it with very dire consequences.

 

[Richard S]

I no longer own a RAS, after the fourth one I decided they where just too frustrating, so even though Norm had one I gave up, however I'm sure they cut on the down stroke, as one of their idiosyncrasies is to run away with the cut when cross cutting. (Never support the workpiece against the fence with any part of your hand behind the line of the cut). Steve Maskery may be correct for rip cuts, I can't recall if you can articulate the head 90* left and right to allow for blade rotation.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have a Wadkin RAS and only ever used for cross cutting. This is the one machine I would quite happily do without, it takes up a lot of floor space and only gets occasional use.

They are difficult to keep accurately square as they pivot on the column we only use it for it's original purpose (to rough cut timber to length). It is very well suited to joinery workshops that use a lot of timber that needs prepping.

The only reason I have it is to teach people how to safely use it on my machining courses. Which includes the safe use of each machine and accurate setting up.

In my first teaching post the workshop I joined had a RAS and they routinely used it for Ripping. My first action within the workshop was to stop that from happening, it was only by luck that no students had had an accident.

I would advice any one to keep well away from ripping on the RAS.

Cheers Peter

 

[acewoodturner]

Get a copy of Wally Kunkel's book on the radial arm saw. Best book ever written on the RAS. Tells you everything you need to know. There is also an American forum on the RAS as well. Very informative and helpful members on it.

 

[HOJ]

I use my RAS all day, every day, had it since the Eighties, one of the most used machines in the shop, doesn't take me long to tune it in,
prefer it to my Festool Kapex, which mostly stays in the van for mobile use, has a long left side table with length stops
for accurate and repetitive stock cutting and doubles up as an over spill bench, I have adjustable fences which allow angled cross cuts,
the rise and fall is indispensable for cutting shoulders, dadoes, and a limitless list of other uses.

It does have a tendency to snatch as it tries to climb over the wood but I am used to that and just get a firm grip and take it easy when pulling over.

I bought it in the first instance to combine the cross cutting and ripping, seemed like an ideal solution, but terrified me with its unpredictability,
even with all the safety devices, it was far too dangerous, I will NEVER use it again for ripping.

 

[andersonec]

A radial arm saw does not have a riving knife,,,,,nuff said.

Andy

 

[Rhossydd]

A radial arm saw does not have a riving knife,,,,,nuff said.

Wrong. The DeWalt RAS does come with a riving knife as standard.

 

[jonnypetrie]

Thanks for all the input, food for thought. I think I'll still use the saw for ripping, however will approach with caution. From looking on the net there seems to be ways to make things a bit safer so I'll look into that. I don't think i'm going to be ripping solid wood, for now anyway, so that's probably going to reduce the change of kickback

and yes it has a riving knife, would be pretty dangerous without one!

 

[Steve Maskery]

So you ask for advice, get given good advice from people who are experienced and then ignore it anyway?
Have I got that right?
Interesting.

"yes it has a riving knife, would be pretty dangerous without one"

It's very dangerous even with one. But you've already been told that.
Good luck.
S

S

 

[powertools]

As I said in my post before you do make sure that the saw is 100% set up as it should be you may have already seen it but there is a good general guide to this process here :- http://www.instructables.com/id/Setting ... /?ALLSTEPS

I notice that some members make this sound simple but to quote a phrase in the above link "This can be a very tedious process"
When only used as a crosscut saw it is possible to get good results with only some of the settings being correct. When using the saw for other things such as ripping and dado cuts it is essential for good results and safety that all settings are correct. For ripping the most important thing to check is the final step in the above link about heel angle if this is out you may not even notice on cross cuts but will lead to a possible dangerous situation on rip cuts as the wood will become trapped between the blade and the fence with the result that it will come back out of the saw at speed in your direction (kick back).
Also be prepared for all the saw dust to end up all over you.

 

[jonnypetrie]

Thanks for that, I've not read that guide before. I've used a fairly old looking youtube video to set it up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKSkZ1vAzNc, it seems to cover most things. The only thing i've not done is check for heel, but that's next on my list.
I found this on video on youtube of a guy ripping a plank to square it off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBLhvQ6eP04 There's no anti-kickback fingers or riving knife, is this just an accident waiting to happen?

 

[wizard]

I get a lot of hysterical people saying that it's just too dangerous and you should avoid ripping with a RAS at all costs!

so why did you ask the question!