Rip fence upgrade for Kity 419

[woof]

Posted this on general woodworking but in a loosely related thread - but thinking again and my question really best asked here on the tool section but apologies if you are reading this for second time.

Recently bought a second hand kity 419 - and not particularly happy with the rip fence. Whan you tighten it, fence lifts up a fraction towards the right, and goes off-parallel. So has anyone upgraded their kity 419 fence? And if so, with what? There is a Kreg fence for bandsaws -

http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/reviews/kregbandsawfence.htm


... looks very swish but the front fence is only 21 inches long. But do like the lens for magnifying the scale, and the microadjuster - although it is designed for a less wide bandsaw and the front rail much shorter than that currently on the kity.

Then ... axminster upgrade that is mentioned a few times on here:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/5/product-Axminster-Rip-Fence-Upgrade-362802.htm

looks ok but the fence itself seems pretty uniform (square) so no low side for lower profile wood. Is the fence rock solid when locked down? Does it move when locking down?
So ... kreg or Axminster - or any other thoughts? Anyone got either of these on their table saw?

Thanks, Mark

 

[beech1948]

http://www.mulecab.com/

This is a third alternative and possibly the best of those available. There are some write ups on their site but thats of course self serving.

You might also consider INCRA.

regards
Alan

 

[beech1948]

Sorry forgot to say that Mulecab do have a UK presence and web site.
alan

 

[Rich]

Hi Mark, I would be very interested to know if you managed to upgrade your t/s fence and if so with what?, the reason I ask is I recently purchased APTC TS200, and from what I read on the forum it,s a clone of your Kity 419, in my opinion the fence on mine is not long enough.
Regards Rich.

 

[Steve Maskery]

in my opinion the fence on mine is not long enough.

Why do you think the fence is too short, Rich? A short rip fence is MUCH safer than a full length one on a tablesaw. For a full explanation (and how you can convert a "standard" fence into a short one) see my video and free plan download here.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Rich]

Hi Steve, thanks very much for taking the time to reply, the reason I raised the query is because the Fox t/s (for instance) shows a full length fence? I know I need educating on t/s and am grateful for your interest but when I tried to access your link the video only lasted for about 5 seconds then tried to start again???, what am I doing wrong, ( I,m not a techie) I thought because my t/s was so cheap that the manufacturer had economised on the fence length, I,ll be much obliged if you can reply.
Regards Rich.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Rich
I'm afraid don't know why you can't see the video. I don't host it, it's on YouTube, it works fine from here, which I know is of no help to you! I can only urge you to keep trying.

The basic point is that a short rip fence allows the workpiece to move away from the blade as soon as it is severed, and one with a lip allows the same freedom of movement even when ripping very narrow stock.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Mike.C]

Working fine from this end Steve. Great video and an excellent safety tip.

Cheers

Mike

 

[woof]

Hi Mark, I would be very interested to know if you managed to upgrade your t/s fence and if so with what?, the reason I ask is I recently purchased APTC TS200, and from what I read on the forum it,s a clone of your Kity 419, in my opinion the fence on mine is not long enough.
Regards Rich.

Hi Rich,
In the end I bought a kreg bandsaw fence. It really is a beautiful fence BUT having attached it, I now realise why it is a bandsaw fence and is less use as a table saw fence. What I mean is that it works fine low profile, but tall profile, because it is L-shaped, and the grooves are not symmetrical either side, it is designed to be on the left hand side of the blade. Bit difficult to explain but easier to visualise here
http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Main/sp-2-4944-50940-kreg-bandsaw-fence.asp
So it is lovely low profile, and beautifully crafted fence, but I will need to now buy a bandsaw to do it justice! So I wouldn't recommend it for it (un)intended purpose on a table saw overall. But one other thing, it is shorter and can finish anywhere as far back as towards the rear of your blade, and as pointed out already some folks believe a shorter fence is safer. In retrospect, I perhaps should hae bought the Axminster replacement fence but I would get opinions from folks who alread have this. Hope that helps. Good luck!

 

[Jake]

and as pointed out already some folks believe a shorter fence is safer.

It isn't a question of what some folks believe; it is a fact.

 

[woof]

and as pointed out already some folks believe a shorter fence is safer.

It isn't a question of what some folks believe; it is a fact.

Correction ... short fence IS safer, but not fool proof (woofproof!). You will still get occassional wood flying back to the danger zone, but much less. Although maybe this is because I haven't adjusted my Kity?

 

[Mike.C]

Woof you know your own system and what is wrong with it, but before you waste any more money I would try and get some advice from Kity owners to see if you can sort the original 419 fence out. Gill has the same saw so why not ask her.

As far as I know the Kity is a pretty good saw and I have not read to many bad things about it, so it maybe that you only need to set it up properly , especially as it is secondhand. Or if the fence is really shot, what about buying another Kity fence? I believe that Kity SAS is still about in France and that NMA Agencies are or were their agents (there is a member who works for NMA)
At least this way you will have the proper fence for the machine, which I know is is full length, but you maybe able to get a short fence attachment form them, or make Steves.

It's up to you, but if the Kity fence is usually good then surely it would be better to have that one?

HTH

Cheers

Mike

 

[Gill]

Since my name's been mentioned, perhaps it's time I stopped lurking on a thread I've been following with some interest and not a little bemusement, feeling nervous about contributing because I've never had a problem with either of my 419 fences. When I bought my saw, it was part of a package including a table extension and sliding carriage, a full length fence and a shortened fence. I just use the short fence because of concerns about possible kickback. I have to be the most nervous user of a table saw in the entire country!

I've just looked underneath the aluminium guide rail at the front of my saw and there's a gully which runs along the length of the rail. Woof, is it possible that the front of your aluminium rail has had a 'ding' which has compressed this gully and consequently knocked the whole guide rail slightly out of true? You could easily check with a pair of calipers. If this is where the problem lies, perhaps you might be able to prise the rail back into alignment by applying leverage judiciously.

Gill

 

[Mike.C]

Gill,

Since my name's been mentioned, perhaps it's time I stopped lurking on a thread I've been following with some interest and not a little bemusement, feeling nervous about contributing because I've never had a problem with either of my 419 fences.

Sorry Gill but you are the only owner I could think of

Cheers

Mike

 

[Gill]

No probs, Mike .

Actually, I would have contributed before but I know there are others here who have 419s and who are more likely to have encountered the problem with the fence that Woof describes. I'm surprised none of those members have offered more authoritative suggestions before now. If it gets to the point where a scroller gets called upon to pass a comment, things must be desperate :lol: !

Gill

 

[woof]

Hi Gill,
I only have the big old kity fence that straddles the whole table - not the shorter one you mention, and I did want to have a shorter fence since found myself fighting and pushing to get wood through - which is clearly not good. So the Kreg fence works fine low profile - in fact just been ripping some 3/4 inch oak boards this afternoon. The thing I didn't like about the fence that came with my Kity was that to secure it, a bolt screwed straight into the guide rail, without a washer or ring, so as you tightened it, the fence listed to the right as you tightened it at the end! Did have a look at the guide rail at the front, that seems intact but - I think it may have been butchered as the guide rail stretches across the table, one extension and then peters out and I have another table extension that clearly won't screw down onto thin air! The other thing I noticed, is that at full tilt to perpendicular - the blade itself is just a tad off, only one degree or less. Also the blade does not seem exactly parallel to mitre slots. It was secondhand, and being very new into this hobby it takes time to identify that perhaps it is not that I am incompetent, but that the machinery may have seen better days. I do not doubt that a well looked after Kity - or a new one - is top notch! In retrospect I should have bought new, but there is just so much equipment to get when you want to set up a workshop. Having said that, I just love the sliding table ...

 

[Mike.C]

woof,

I only have the big old kity fence that straddles the whole table - not the shorter one you mention,

The shorter fence that Gill mentions is not used on its own, it is attached to the full length fence when ripping. The reason you are fighting with the wood when pushing it passed the blade, is because you are not using the small one
It was obviously missing when you bought the saw.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Gill]

If that's the case. Mike, I'm using my short fence completely wrong! Mind, it wouldn't be the first time I'd got tools set up wrong in my workshop :lol: . No, the short fence is designed to be used on its own. It is a fixed length (about 3/4 the length of a full fence) and therefore not as refined as a variable length fence, but it's still pretty effective and eliminates binding. I don't think the short fence is sold as standard on the basic 419 package. I got one because Kity had a special 'all inclusive' offer when I purchased my saw as part of a comprehensive package deal.

Woof, I'm having some difficulty visualising your problem with blade alignment. Insofar as having the blade out of alignment with the mitre tracks, if memory serves me right you should be able to adjust this by raising the blade to its full height, then loosening the two pairs of alignment bolts, one pair in front of the blade and a parallel pair behind it. Sadly, I can't find my 419 users guide right now or I'd post a picture and point out exactly which bolts I mean. Anyway, once the bolts are loosened you can then adjust the blade's lateral position by hand until the distance from the front of the blade to the mitre track is exactly the same as the distance from the rear of the blade to the mitre track. Then tighten the alignment bolts and cut a test piece of wood. You should find the test piece only touches the blade at the point on the leading edge where the teeth cut it.

Aligning your blade like this might correct the inaccuracy you report when tilting your blade. However, I hope someone will come along and confirm that my proposed method of setting up the blade alignment at least seems to be right. As I said before, I don't claim to be either familiar or comfortable with setting up table saws and it's entirely possible that I'm unwittingly passing on bad practice.

Gill

PS I quite agree - the sliding table is fab !

 

[Mike.C]

Gill,

If that's the case. Mike, I'm using my short fence completely wrong! Mind, it wouldn't be the first time I'd got tools set up wrong in my workshop . No, the short fence is designed to be used on its own. It is a fixed length (about 3/4 the length of a full fence) and therefore not as refined as a variable length fence, but it's still pretty effective and eliminates binding. I don't think the short fence is sold as standard on the basic 419 package. I got one because Kity had a special 'all inclusive' offer when I purchased my saw as part of a comprehensive package deal.

I stand corrected then. From now on I will have to check my facts before I open my mouth.
The reason I gave the information I did, is because my SIP has a small fence which is attached to the main one when needed, and Scrit (who unfortunately is not with us anymore) has mentioned this type of fence on a number of occasions.

Oh well sorry Woof. As I said I will check my info from now on.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Gill]

Do keep spouting, Mike - if you hadn't persisted in trying to help Woof when nobody else was around, I wouldn't have had the confidence to participate in this thread. I might not be the best person to advise on table saw matters, but at least I can throw something into the mix from the perspective of owning a 419. I also own a 419 users guide which may have some useful diagrams... if only I could lay my hands on the little pest ! That said, some time ago Frank sent me a copy of the Table Saw Bench Guide by Roger W Cliffe which explains table saw matters so well that even a numpty like me dare go near the beastie with an Allen key in my hand .

Gill