Ringing noise with greater stick out?

[westwardho]

My Record Power Model No 0[1] has been giving me a lot of joy, but I have an issue.

Sometimes when turning the whole thing seems to make a loud (and unpleasant) ringing noise. It never does it when I'm turning bowls, or small end grain boxes (more like needle cases), but when I've tried something longer, like a goblet, and particularly when I'm hollowing end grain, it seems that anything but the barest shaving makes every thing ring.

Yesterday it was ringing when turning the outside of the cup/bowl (of the goblet) too, but when I put the tailstock in (live centre into a bit of wood that fitted nicely into the cup) it went away.

Any ideas? I'll try to record it tomorrow.

[1]

 

[Trevanion]

You need something like a steady rest for end-grain boring far away from the headstock, any more than say 5" or so.

 

[CHJ]

Is the front headstock spindle bearing a tapered item? if so it may need adjusting to remove excessive clearance.

 

[westwardho]

You need something like a steady rest for end-grain boring far away from the headstock, any more than say 5" or so.

But youtube is full of videos of people hollowing end-grain goblets without any such thing. Do they just have better lathes?

 

[westwardho]

Is the front headstock spindle bearing a tapered item? if so it may need adjusting to remove excessive clearance.

Hrm. I don't know where to start even answering this.

I don't see _anything_ adjustable around the headstock/motor, etc, although I might just be missing it.

 

[westwardho]

Here's the noise, with a view of the roof of my workshop. This was running at 900RPM.



(The noise is less "ringing" in this one, but I was using a much chunkier piece of wood.)
(The too-heavy bogging down at the end was me getting frustrated at the noise not being picked up very well by the phone.)

 

[Trevanion]

But youtube is full of videos of people hollowing end-grain goblets without any such thing. Do they just have better lathes?

In short, probably. Those Record lathes have solid steel rods for the bed correct? I would imagine rods have a penchant to flex a bit more compared to a solid bed casting or a welded steel construction. When you take the tool to the end grain of the work it's almost like a lever once it touches the wood, the further away from the headstock you are the greater the fulcrum is and the chance of flex at the headstock end from the cutting forces at the tool rest. There are various other factors of course, like the density and size of your workpiece and how it's attached to the machine but I'd reckon it's the stick-out without any support giving you a bit of flex in the setup which in turn is giving you vibration when cutting.

If you make a simple steady rest (loads of videos available online with many similar designs) I would say it would eliminate your problem.

 

[westwardho]

That's better news than I was fearing, anyway, and fits with it going away with my loose improvised tailstock on the goblet. I remember a Mike Peace video about a wooden cone centre for the tailstock.

Yes, the bed is two long steel bars.

I've seen Adam Booth (abom79) machining with steady rests. Never thought about _making_ one. That could be fun.

Thanks

 

[Dalboy]

That sounds like chatter caused by unsupported work if making goblets it is best to hollow out first then form the outer part of the goblet before moving onto the stem and finally the base you can support it by using a tennis ball in the open end and bring up the tailstock. by leaving as much material on the piece and working from the tailstock end to the headstock will help with this.
Not sure if it has the cone type bearing but as CHJ stated they need checking every so often. I have a CL3 which has that type of bearing and I would imagine the adjustment is the same. If it is the go to the record site and see if they have a instruction manual

 

[westwardho]

The CL0 seems something of an oddball in that it seems to get missed from many lists. Perhaps they'll be able to help me over email. Unless adjustment instructions are easy to give here?

 

[CHJ]

I wondered if it was a tapered roller bearing Derek rather than bronze, with a loading adjustment in the headstock?

 

[westwardho]

I will take some more photos tomorrow.

 

[Robbo3]

Definitely chatter. Could be that the tool isn't sharp but more likely that the work isn't being adequately held in the chuck. The jaws only make a perfect circle at one point in their travel & this is the size of tenon to aim for.
It's not the crushing effect of the jaws on the tenon that stops the work moving but the shoulder of the tenon pressing against the front face of the jaws. That's why the tenon must be shorter than the depth of the jaws & the shoulder should be 90° or slightly undercut.

 

[westwardho]

https://i.imgur.com/jvkXM0J.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zGriqAQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0r3U49m.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HQCWpjk.jpg

 

[westwardho]

I shimmed the bench slightly and that helped. In a 10 second test the noise seems to have gone when turning on the edge, but still there on end grain hollowing (pull cut).

 

[Paul Hannaby]

The distance a cut can be made from the end of the lathe spindle is influenced by the distance between the front and back bearings in the headstock (think of this in terms of levers). Smaller lathes generally have the bearings closer together so the leverage caused by the cut has a greater effect and you can't hang long pieces of wood of the spindle without additional support to reduce the effect of leverage.

 

[westwardho]

Anyone able to tell from the photos if it's something I can adjust, twiddle or tweak?

 

[Robbo3]

Do you have a thread protector? If not, they are nearly essential on Record/Coronet lathes to remove morse taper drives.
Your photo shows the belt positioned on the flat areas. Hopefully the belt is ribbed & runs on the matching ribbed sections.

 

[westwardho]

What's a thread protector and how's it used?

The belt is ribbed as you say.

 

[westwardho]

Oh! The thing that screws on before the drive centre, sorry, yeah, got that. Found it after struggling to remove the centre the first few times with all kinds of improvisation.