Restoring old furniture

[White House Workshop]

My son-in-law has decided he wants to do this but is totally clueless! I can't offer him any advice other than 'be careful'. Does anyone in here have any experience or can recommend the best book for him to read for getting started?

His idea is to buy old pieces at auction, fix them up and then resell. So far he's been buying early 18th and some 19th century oak pieces (actually quite nice). All he really needs for now is some basic repairs, worm treatment, and clean/polish. Doesn't sound too difficult but my guess he could really screw things up badly by going about it the wrong way!

PS - he did rope me in to make a container to replace one that was missing from a secret compartment in a late 17th C desk. Good job I had a small piece of really old oak lying around...

 

[Sgian Dubh]

My son-in-law has decided he wants to do this but is totally clueless!

I can't resist providing some flippant answers, so do please take them in the wry spirit they're meant to convey.

Does anyone in here have any experience...

Yes. Me.

...or can recommend the best book for him to read for getting started?

The prospectuses of colleges that run restoration courses might be a good start.

...my guess he could really screw things up badly by going about it the wrong way!

He sure as hell could. Nothing like complete ignorance, few or no skills and misplaced optimism for making a perfect screw-up.

Next week I'm planning to be an electrician. Never done it before; know nothing about it; but I'm sure it's a doddle, ha, ha.

Are you sure you're correct saying he's completely clueless? I mean no-one would try and make money at something they know absolutely nothing about, would they? Slainte.

 

[wizer]

Has he been watching 'The Restoration Man' with Alan Herd? If not, might be an idea to keep an eye out for it. He does exactly what you suggest.

 

[White House Workshop]

Well, he did read that white spirit and grey scotchbrite pads are good for getting rid of dirt - but he rubbed so hard he went right through the finish to bare wood. Hardly a promising start. Unfortunately he's someone who learns from doing and making mistakes. Fortunately usually only once! Won't be told anything - not by me anyway. Ah well, sit back and watch the fun......

 

[Sgian Dubh]

... rubbed so hard he went right through the finish to bare wood. ...learns from doing and making mistakes. ... Won't be told anything ...

How are you at building comfy chairs? This could be more entertainng for you than watching soaps on TV, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[White House Workshop]

I guess no-one has a book they can recommend then to stop him totally screwing everything up?

 

[tim]

I guess no-one has a book they can recommend then to stop him totally screwing everything up?

Is there a 'Dummies Guide - Knowing your limits'? :lol:

Seriously, I can't help with a recommendation and I would be very surprised if there was a book out there that it wasn't just a DIY reference rather than one that dexribes the nuances between cleaning and removing any valuable patina etc. His best bet would surely be a course or two.


Cheers

Tim

 

[woodbutcher]

hi w h w.

i have a book that he should read called restoring furniture by kenneth davis and thom henvey . orbis publishing. london. i don't know weather it is still in print if not pm me and we could work something out.

woodbutcher.

 

[White House Workshop]

Thanks for the tip woodbutcher - just what I was asking for. There are lots of copies available on amazon for 1p and up.

 

[RogerM]

I guess no-one has a book they can recommend then to stop him totally screwing everything up?

WHW - I hope we're ging to get some good WIP piccies! :lol: :roll: :twisted: :lol:

 

[White House Workshop]

I guess no-one has a book they can recommend then to stop him totally screwing everything up?

WHW - I hope we're ging to get some good WIP piccies! :lol: :roll: :twisted: :lol:

Sorry, but he's turning the stuff over too quickly. You could search eBay for early English furniture as he has a couple of things from the early 1700's up right now - a bureau and chest of drawers. He's putting up a Victorian oak bookcase/secretaire next week. Search on Victorian Shakespeare prints of Othello - he's got the only ones up there!

 

[Matt@]

I think it would be fair to say that someone who has no knowledge in restoring antique furniture would take about 10 years to get to the stage where *every* job they did, they could guarentee that job would go as planned (and you can't plan if you have little experience)

Leading up to that magic turning point, the success of alot of jobs is down to luck. Unskilled restoration is the scourge of the antiques world. Its a great shame really, as so many items are ruined past the point of no return due to the most basic of errors.

What usually happens is someone new to the game manages to turn over a few successful jobs and gets some confidence only to fall flat on their face with what seemed like a simple job.

Hopefully the guy in question will find out proper tuition is whats needed or will get fed up and do something else. On the other hand, whilst Joe Gullible Public is out there buying on Ebay, it keeps semi skilleds in "business"

 

[johnnyb]

lets be honest here any restoration whether by pro or am could be considered dubious practice. somebody whos been in business for ten years has been asked by antique dealers(the main customers) to do very dodgy things and most will succomb to not lose a customer. restoration is always carried out for financial reasons NEVER to improve the piece. the most ethical practice is always minimum intervention or conservation of the existing object. unfortunatly this does not sell antique furniture. the conservation of items is another field altogether and one where experience, doings things by rote is discouraged treatments should be based on scientific analysis of the object.
which is worse losing a small amount of patina through overcleaning(although patina is not really dirt) or replacing /rebuilding items so skilfully that the general purchaser is fooled into thinking something is what it isnt?

 

[houtslager]

LOL came to this one late, but as a restorer / maker for 28 years I must agree with the last poster, johnnyB.
Most "restorations"are to improve the selling prospects and profit margin, or if for a privat client - the memories of a piece when a loved parent/ grandparent left the piece and has had an accident.
I have 2 bits in the workshop now, for a client in Oslo, that are for the latter in for restoration, and these are not really valuable but in time will become worth more then the work carried out.

I hope your sil will reconize the pitfalls whw, and no sorry there are no really good books out there, maybe oneday if a few of the good restorers here got together , we good compile a fair book on the subject eh ! colinc :wink:

hs busy doing an Irish bar refurb in Germany

 

[White House Workshop]

We he realised he doesn't know much so has taken the minimum interventionist route and does light cleaning only, preserving the patina. His biggest problem has been squaring up a warped door, but it's now within 1/4" so I think he'll let it go at that.

He's making an absolute fortune! Typically he makes between 50 and 75% profit on every piece, but this week he picked up 3 items from a house clearance for about £2000 that he's had valued at Sotheby's for around £50,000. Coming up in their auction in about 6 months. Not every week is like that but he's certainly got an eye for something! I wonder how the auctioneer (and dealers in the room) didn't see them?

 

[norman]

Hi all
LOL came to this one late, but as a restorer / maker for 28 years I must agree with the last poster, johnnyB.
Most "restorations"are to improve the selling prospects and profit margin, or if for a privat client - the memories of a piece when a loved parent/ grandparent left the piece and has had an accident.
I have 2 bits in the workshop now, for a client in Oslo, that are for the latter in for restoration, and these are not really valuable but in time will become worth more then the work carried out.

I hope your sil will reconize the pitfalls whw, and no sorry there are no really good books out there, maybe oneday if a few of the good restorers here got together , we good compile a fair book on the subject eh ! colinc

Have to agree with HG. Wish this chap the very best of luck but he will have to learn on the job. as most restores have to do.
Regards
Norman

 

[Mr T]

Just to stop him using the scotshbrite and white spirit I would suggest a recipe for reviver, which is good for cleaning and reconstititing a finish.

Equal parts turps, meths and linseed oil plus a generous dash of vinegar. Shake regularly and apply with a cloth.

Screwfix also market a good furniture cleaner.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I would suggest a recipe for reviver, which is good for cleaning and reconstititing a finish.

Equal parts turps, meths and linseed oil plus a generous dash of vinegar. Shake regularly and apply with a cloth.

Chris, that's a variation of quite a common recipe that includes (boiled) linseed oil in the mix. The boiled linseed oil is the one to be wary of.

Boiled linseed oil included in the mix doesn't serve any useful purpose on film forming finishes such as lacquer, varnish and shellac.

Antique furniture pre-dating the early 1800's was mostly finished with things like wax, brick dust, early natural spirit varnishes and various oils, including linseed oil. It was later that french polishing became the number one finish in high quality work.

These home brew cleaners that include linseed oil, where the oil is supposed to erroneously 'feed' the wood, have been around for a long time. One thing these mixes are associated with is darkening of the wood, with the boiled linseed oil being the culprit.

I think I'm correct in saying that it's led some of the antiques cogniscenti to opine that furniture cleaned using these mixtures is devalued due to the 'unnatural' darkening.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. I spotted you'd arrived three or four weeks ago. Slainte.

 

[Mr T]

I'm not sure if you are criticising the use of the reviver, as I specified, or just the use of boiled linseed oil.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm not sure if you are criticising the use of the reviver, as I specified, or just the use of boiled linseed oil.

The boiled linseed oil is the questionable element Chris.

If you want to clean a dirty piece of furniture the boiled linseed oil serves no purpose. To clean a dirty surface all you need is something to loosen the dirt and wash it away. White spirits and a mild abrasive, eg, wire wool or nylon pad is one method.

If you want to strip old dirty and crazed shellac then alcohol and an abrasive do that effectively and take you down to bare wood. Adding boiled linseed oil to the mix puts linseed oil on the wood. The question you have to ask is, "Do I want to apply linseed oil to this wood after I've stripped the shellac?"

Similarly if the reviver contains linseed oil and is used to clean up an antique that has a couple of hundred years of wax on it, you need to ask the same question, ie, do you want or need to add linseed oil.

Linseed oil doesn't add anything useful to the cleaning properties of the solvents and astringents in the mix you mentioned containing white spirits (turps), alcohol (aka meths) and vinegar.

Linseed oil remains after all the astringents and solvents have evaporated from the surface. It remains on the surface of a film forming polish that's not dissolved by any of the solvents in the mix. What useful purpose can a thin gummy film of linseed oil serve over an oil based varnish or lacquer is a fair question.

If the old polish was an oil, a wax or a shellac in some form, then the solvents strip the old finishes or polish away and the linseed oil remains on and in the fibres of the wood. Then the question has to be, "Do I want to replace the original finish that was on the wood with linseed oil?"

In this last scenario the original finish, now replaced with linseed, may not have had the colour changing characterists that linseed oil has. Boiled linseed oil darkens the wood. Another characteristic of linseed oil is continual darkening over time.

So, let's say the original finish on an old piece of furniture was a shellac of some sort over wood(s) coloured with natural vegetable and other dyes available 200 years ago. Naturally the original colours have changed over the years as the dyes have faded and the wood has oxidised and reacted to UV rays. Linseed oil in the reviver will immediately darken any wood it comes into contact with as the shellac is stripped away by the alcohol in the mix, and it will continue to darken over the years.

In this case has the reviver done the job intended, or has it unintentionally altered the nature of the piece entirely? And is this what was intended by the person doing the 'reviving'? Or would a different reviving technique be an altogether better method, eg, simply strip the old shellac with alcohol and re-polish the job with new shellac. Slainte.