Replacements blades for old Stanleys

[The Bear]

Hi all

I have a no4.5 and no6 Stanley plane, both about 100 yrs old. I am in the process of cleaning up and fettling both. Both have very little blade left and need replacing.

What are my options? I know Lie Neilsen make replacements, but are there any others I should consider? I am keen that the blades I get are good quality.

If I go the Lie Neilsen route should I upgrade the chip breaker as well?

Should I consider thicker blades than the originals as I am very wary of needing to file the mouth wider

Thoughts and suggestions?


Mark

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Mark,

I bought a Clifton iron for an old No. 4. I needed to widen the mouth, but was wary of filing. I managed to find an older Stanley blade, from the 70's. Not the best in the world, but better steel than today, all the same.

If you have to buy a new blade, best buy two. You will need to hone a lot more, and you might welcome a spare, ready to put in the plane.

Regards
John

 

[Vann]

I know Lie Neilsen make replacements, but are there any others I should consider? I am keen that the blades I get are good quality.

Lie-Nielsen, Lee Valley (Veritas), Clifton, Ron Hock and Ray Ilses all make good quality replacement irons. Clifton irons are 3.1mm thick and will probably require you to file open the mouth a little. The others all make irons just a little thicker than Stanley originals.

If I go the Lie Neilsen route should I upgrade the chip breaker as well?

You could get a Lie-Nielsen cap iron, no matter whose cutting iron you buy, but also consider a Clifton two-piece cap iron.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[woodbloke]

I'd go for a Hock blade and chipbreaker from Classic Hand Tools. I've not used one but understand that there's no need to file the mouth on the plane - Rob

 

[OPJ]

I bought a Clifton blade from Workshop Heaven a few months ago and it's been nothing short of excellent. Blade retention is superb and the increased thickness allows you to create the thinnest of shavings and create a superb finish in a range of timbers. Only downside is that you do need to open the back of the mouth by a few mill.

There's no 'need', in my opinion, to replace both the blade and chip breaker (unless your cap iron also needs replacing?). The addition of one thicker component is enough to vastly improve the performance of your plane. Ultimately, a thicker blade will yield a greater improvement than if you were to fit a thicker cap iron.

 

[laird]

Or you could try for replacement old Stanley blades from the likes of www.secondhandtools.co.uk

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks for the URL Laird,

Although, one day I will get to one of these sites in time to actually buy some Marples 'Paring' chisels!

Cheers.

John

 

[laird]

I've had a few things off them over the years, they put the date of the next update on their home page, gives you a chance

 

[Benchwayze]

I've had a few things off them over the years, they put the date of the next update on their home page, gives you a chance

Cheers again... There is one there, but it says it is 'pitted'... Hmmm! :lol: At least they are honest.

John

 

[TobyB]

I put a Clifton blade and cap iron into an "unuseable" old No 4 - I`d fettled it to try to make it work to no avail - transformed into a useful tool without outrageous cost. Recomended!

 

[The Bear]

Thabks for all the suggestions so far, I will have a look later tonight at them (and prices!)

What is the advantage of Cliftons 2 piece cap iron over a standard one?


Mark

 

[Benchwayze]

Thabks for all the suggestions so far, I will have a look later tonight at them (and prices!)

What is the advantage of Cliftons 2 piece cap iron over a standard one?


Mark

Mark,

When you need to give the blade a lick on the stone, you don't have to dismantle the blade from the chip-breaker. You just remove the forward part of the breaker and take the blade and the breaker to the stone. It used to be called the 'Stayset' system.

If you have advanced too far back in the sharpening, you just need to move the breaker back a little, before reseating the front section and replacing the blade and breaker in the plane.

Regards
John

 

[Paul Chapman]

A more important advantage of the two-piece, or Stay-Set, cap iron, in my view, is that the fixed part is flat and screwed to the blade, which has the effect of making the blade/cap iron assembly far more rigid. It's rather like having a very thick blade in the way it dampens any vibration or chatter. If you have a thin blade, fitting a Stay-Set cap iron can definitely improve performance. I have them on all my bench planes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Benchwayze]

A more important advantage of the two-piece, or Stay-Set, cap iron, in my view, is that the fixed part is flat and screwed to the blade, which has the effect of making the blade/cap iron assembly far more rigid. It's rather like having a very thick blade in the way it dampens any vibration or chatter. If you have a thin blade, fitting a Stay-Set cap iron can definitely improve performance. I have them on all my bench planes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

It's arguable Paul,

I follow your reasoning, and agree to a point. However, with a normal 'sprung' chip-breaker, the slight curve away from the iron causes more pressure at the front edge, where it's really needed.

Thus, we get full contact with the flat of the iron, right across the blade, and supporting the edge. (Assuming a sharp edge on the chip-breaker, and a truly flat rear-face on the iron.) This means the chip-breaker can do its job. I.e., push the shavings up and clear of the throat. The blade gets most of its support from the frog.

I don't decry the 'Stayset', but I have only two planes with the system, and they were so equipped when I bought them.

Just a difference in thinking Paul..
Cheers.
John
:wink:

 

[Paul Chapman]

However, with a normal 'sprung' chip-breaker, the slight curve away from the iron causes more pressure at the front edge, where it's really needed.

My view is that the conventional, and rather crude, sprung cap iron and modern thin blades cause quite a few problems in that the cap iron, in some cases, bends the blade which means that it's not in full contact with the frog (which is also poorly machined in modern Record/Stanley and other cheap planes). Collectively these things result in poor performance. Thick blades, well-designed cap irons and Bedrock frogs solve all these problems and result in far superior performance in my experience.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

What is the advantage of Cliftons 2 piece cap iron over a standard one?


Mark

There isn't...I can't stand them :twisted: I hate the way the front bit always falls off and even if I can manage to hone successfully with the rear half in place, I can't use the 'ruler trick' on my Spyderco. Bin them, either get a decent Hock one to go with Hock blade or fettle the existing Stanley chipbreaker - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

What is the advantage of Cliftons 2 piece cap iron over a standard one?


Mark

There isn't... Bin them

:shock: :shock: Don't do that - send them to me, I love 'em.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Benchwayze]

Well Paul...

It would be a boring old life if we all liked the same things...

For instance, I prefer the LN blades to the Hock, which with its oblong shape, makes a plane look a bit 'clunky'.

As I said, I don't dislike the Stayset, but only having the two, I too get frayed when the 'nose' falls off, because I forgot I was using one!

John

 

[woodbloke]

I too get frayed when the 'nose' falls off, because I forgot I was using one!

John

...and when they do fall off, they get picked up and hurled across the 'shop, shame is I can't stuff 'em through the bandsaw! - Rob

 

[Vann]

What is the advantage of Cliftons 2 piece cap iron over a standard one?

When clamped down with the lever cap, your standard cap iron applies pressure in two places - at the cutting edge (where it's important) and towards the top. The pressure at the cutting edge can often cause a slight bow in the iron between the two pressure points, which prevents the iron seating flat on the frog and causes havoc with planing.

The two-piece iron applies pressure in three places: the cutting edge; near the top; and at the join between the two pieces, which eliminates the above problem. Like the L-N cap-iron it's also thicker which helps deaden vibration.

You either love or hate the two-piece. As John points out, if you don't think about what you're doing when you pull the irons out of your plane, the bottom piece drops off into the shavings on the floor...

On the other hand, it's a cheap upgrade (once you've trained yourself to put your finger on the lower piece EVERY time you take the irons out of the plane).

Oh, and if you decide to replace you cutting irons - A2 irons for rough hard work, Clifton O1 irons for fine finishing work.... (grabs hat & coat and runs for the door...) :lol:

Cheers, Vann.